4 ms·

The worst phone spam is already illegal in the US. The problem is, in the current system, it's impossible to figure out who's doing it. That's one of the things

by Zarel 8y ago

The worst phone spam is already illegal in the US. The problem is, in the current system, it's impossible to figure out who's doing it. That's one of the things STIR/SHAKEN is supposed to fix.

6nf 8y ago
At least some of the phone spam is for real businesses / services, those should be easy enough to stop?
viraptor 8y ago
> it's impossible to figure out who's doing it It's really not. Not for the operator / law enforcement anyway. 1. Ask operator where that call came from. 2. If it's another operator, go back to 1. 3. You got the end user. They already have to have accounting/audit for billing purposes anyway.
- ipython 8y ago
  Have you tried that? If so you can make a fortune suing these callers under the current law
  - viraptor 8y ago
    I'm not in the US. And I don't expect those operations to be easy to sue, or have a lot of actual assets.
atoav 8y ago
Law enforcement doesn’t seem to work then. On my German phone I received one (!) Spam call in 10 years, and that was a human who didn’t knew about the law and excused himself when I told him about it. Sometimes I have the feeling that people in the US just accept a lot of what happens in their nation as unchangeable in a quite fatalistic way. Problems that are literally solved in nearly every other nation are frequently painted as unsolvable. Does this have to do with the role of the state?
- mrunkel 8y ago
  This is a self reinforcing system. Public services (including law enforcement) are starved for resources by conservative (small government) politicians who can then say "see, government doesn't work, why should they get all this money" and proceed to reduce funding further. This leads to the populace accepting that "government doesn't work" and that "taxes are too high." This cycle has been going on for about 40 years now. It appears it may be ending with the rise of "leftist" politicians like Bernie Sanders gaining some traction. It also leads to terrible things like civil asset forfeiture which literally turns police officers into highway bandits. (But it's ok, they only steal from the bad guys).
  - cotelletta 8y ago
    Is the situation any better in guaranteed blue states? California seems like a perfect example of government overreach and wasteful spending that enables the exact same abuse that supposedly only greedy capitalists engage in. Is the high speed train done yet?
    - mrunkel 8y ago
      The idea that you espouse in that California exhibits government overreach and wasteful spending is exactly what I'm talking about. California has been extremely budget constrained ever since the Prop 13 passed in 1978. They've been fighting against that ever since. Your very words shout this ingrained bias. "wasteful spending" and "government overreach"... I think you mean "provide services" and "regulation." I lived a great deal of my life in California and now live in Germany. The difference in people's relationship with the government and taxes is palpable. > Is the high speed train done yet? It's my understanding the project was cancelled.
- someguydave 8y ago
  No, it has to do with powerful minorities who lobby the government to veto majorities against their interests. For instance, the telecom companies and the call center companies both have powerful lobbies. They are in favor of the end customers bearing the burden of unwanted calls rather than cutting their revenues.
tinus_hn 8y ago
You can be 100% sure the billing system knows who’s paying for the call.
bradleyland 8y ago
> The problem is, in the current system, it's impossible to figure out who's doing it. No, the problem is who is responsible for paying the fines. If the terminating carrier were responsible for paying robocall fines, this problem would be solved overnight. But for some reason, the American people can't stomach this solution because we have a obsession with perfection in justice. The counter argument is, "The carrier isn't the one who is making the robocalls!" My POV is, that doesn't matter. Unless carriers are obliged to participate in creating a network that supports compliance, law enforcement will always hit a brick wall when attempting to enforce existing laws. Carriers have been given _years_ to solve this problem, and in 2019 we're pitched STIR/SHAKEN... Seriously? Make the problem more expensive than complacency and it will get solved.
adrr 8y ago
Carriers know who is originating the call by the bill-to-number. There is reciprocal compensation, rural terminating, and other fees the carriers pay each other to terminate calls. Only customers don't know. Carriers don't want to fix the issue because they make money on it. More calls increases revenue. They also started selling services to block the robocalls like ATT Call Protect.

by Zarel 8y ago

The worst phone spam is already illegal in the US. The problem is, in the current system, it's impossible to figure out who's doing it. That's one of the things STIR/SHAKEN is supposed to fix.

6nf 8y ago

At least some of the phone spam is for real businesses / services, those should be easy enough to stop?

viraptor 8y ago

> it's impossible to figure out who's doing it It's really not. Not for the operator / law enforcement anyway. 1. Ask operator where that call came from. 2. If it's another operator, go back to 1. 3. You got the end user. They already have to have accounting/audit for billing purposes anyway.

ipython 8y ago
Have you tried that? If so you can make a fortune suing these callers under the current law
- viraptor 8y ago
  I'm not in the US. And I don't expect those operations to be easy to sue, or have a lot of actual assets.

atoav 8y ago

Law enforcement doesn’t seem to work then. On my German phone I received one (!) Spam call in 10 years, and that was a human who didn’t knew about the law and excused himself when I told him about it. Sometimes I have the feeling that people in the US just accept a lot of what happens in their nation as unchangeable in a quite fatalistic way. Problems that are literally solved in nearly every other nation are frequently painted as unsolvable. Does this have to do with the role of the state?

mrunkel 8y ago
This is a self reinforcing system. Public services (including law enforcement) are starved for resources by conservative (small government) politicians who can then say "see, government doesn't work, why should they get all this money" and proceed to reduce funding further. This leads to the populace accepting that "government doesn't work" and that "taxes are too high." This cycle has been going on for about 40 years now. It appears it may be ending with the rise of "leftist" politicians like Bernie Sanders gaining some traction. It also leads to terrible things like civil asset forfeiture which literally turns police officers into highway bandits. (But it's ok, they only steal from the bad guys).
- cotelletta 8y ago
  Is the situation any better in guaranteed blue states? California seems like a perfect example of government overreach and wasteful spending that enables the exact same abuse that supposedly only greedy capitalists engage in. Is the high speed train done yet?
  - mrunkel 8y ago
    The idea that you espouse in that California exhibits government overreach and wasteful spending is exactly what I'm talking about. California has been extremely budget constrained ever since the Prop 13 passed in 1978. They've been fighting against that ever since. Your very words shout this ingrained bias. "wasteful spending" and "government overreach"... I think you mean "provide services" and "regulation." I lived a great deal of my life in California and now live in Germany. The difference in people's relationship with the government and taxes is palpable. > Is the high speed train done yet? It's my understanding the project was cancelled.
someguydave 8y ago
No, it has to do with powerful minorities who lobby the government to veto majorities against their interests. For instance, the telecom companies and the call center companies both have powerful lobbies. They are in favor of the end customers bearing the burden of unwanted calls rather than cutting their revenues.

tinus_hn 8y ago

You can be 100% sure the billing system knows who’s paying for the call.

bradleyland 8y ago

> The problem is, in the current system, it's impossible to figure out who's doing it. No, the problem is who is responsible for paying the fines. If the terminating carrier were responsible for paying robocall fines, this problem would be solved overnight. But for some reason, the American people can't stomach this solution because we have a obsession with perfection in justice. The counter argument is, "The carrier isn't the one who is making the robocalls!" My POV is, that doesn't matter. Unless carriers are obliged to participate in creating a network that supports compliance, law enforcement will always hit a brick wall when attempting to enforce existing laws. Carriers have been given _years_ to solve this problem, and in 2019 we're pitched STIR/SHAKEN... Seriously? Make the problem more expensive than complacency and it will get solved.

adrr 8y ago

Carriers know who is originating the call by the bill-to-number. There is reciprocal compensation, rural terminating, and other fees the carriers pay each other to terminate calls. Only customers don't know. Carriers don't want to fix the issue because they make money on it. More calls increases revenue. They also started selling services to block the robocalls like ATT Call Protect.