3 ms·

Why do words mean anything? Why do we categorize anything into any number of buckets of arbitrary granularity? If I’m served a steak or a slab of raw salmon, a

by dymk 8y ago

Why do words mean anything? Why do we categorize anything into any number of buckets of arbitrary granularity? If I’m served a steak or a slab of raw salmon, am I gatekeeping or being snobby when I claim that I was not served sushi?

nkozyra 8y ago
This isn't what we're talking about at all though.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  derefr has a great explanation of traditional vs proper vs authentic. But on Why do only some cuisines have such constraints?, that's probably just down to culture. Prescribing how a dish is made expresses a deep cultural identity through food, even if that food has evolved greatly over time. You might be able to change a dish and even improve its flavor, but it would no longer be that culture's food. Now, why do only some cuisines seem to be sticklers more than others? Probably because some people are more sensitive than others about their food. They probably went to get a certain kind of meal, and it wasn't what they were expecting, and they were pissed off. And I get that. If you have an intention to eat this culture's food, you don't want some weird western "interpretation" of it, or some jackass from NY who thinks putting cream cheese on it makes it "regional". You want to be connected to where that dish first came from, and all the breadth of history that distilled into creating its specific flavors and textures. You want that dish. It doesn't help that when dishes are transported out of their country of origin they get transmuted into some kind of local monstrosity. Tex-mex? Spaghetti and meatballs? "Chinese takeout"? California rolls? It's clearly not the real mccoy, but people still call it "mexican", "italian", "chinese", or "sushi", when it barely resembles those cuisines at all. And don't get me started on trying to find a real burger or bbq anywhere outside this country, to say nothing of those rarer American foods, like drip coffee. And to be honest, there's probably a certain amount of cultural elitism involved in "cuisine" (the French word for "we're better than you"). I've always found the French and Japanese alike in that they both think they're superior to everyone else on earth. That's probably going to result in a lot of uppity people wanting their dish the "superior" way. But for me, it's about wanting to understand and respect the deep cultural traditions that produce singularly unique and beautiful expressions of food.
  - unwind 8y ago
    Drip coffee, of course, is the default method in many places. Paper filters were invented in Germany. Really interesting how you feel burgers are less than "real" in other places.
    - peterwwillis 8y ago
      Yes, coffee is made in many different ways around the world. The French, for example, only drink drip coffee at home. The Viennese famously have it strong with whipped cream. Much of the Mediterranean uses an Ottoman-derived concentrated boil method. Trying to find a drip coffee in these places, and many other countries, can be quite difficult. It's not interesting, it's just true.
amingilani 8y ago
I actually think this comment hits a point. It may sound "snobbery" to some, but there are important distinctions to make between the levels of how well something is prepared. The two most important being "proper" and "improper". Burnt rice, rotten meat, and missing ingredients are definite examples of "improper". And cuisines can definitely have constraints on authentic, e.g. hard shell tacos, while delicious, are definitively not "authentic" Mexican. Just like adding spices to my grandmother's (or my) chai is an easy way to lose your head.. it's just not right. Would you like it if your salad resembled more a pasta? Or if you were served pizza as a mixed vegetable platter?[0] I don't think parent^3 was being a snob because he wasn't describing a wine as being "better" because it tastes "oaky". A statement like that is probably deserving of hate, because what does oak even taste like? [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/18/pizza-vegetable-congress-says-so https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/no...

by dymk 8y ago

nkozyra 8y ago

This isn't what we're talking about at all though.

peterwwillis 8y ago
derefr has a great explanation of traditional vs proper vs authentic. But on Why do only some cuisines have such constraints?, that's probably just down to culture. Prescribing how a dish is made expresses a deep cultural identity through food, even if that food has evolved greatly over time. You might be able to change a dish and even improve its flavor, but it would no longer be that culture's food. Now, why do only some cuisines seem to be sticklers more than others? Probably because some people are more sensitive than others about their food. They probably went to get a certain kind of meal, and it wasn't what they were expecting, and they were pissed off. And I get that. If you have an intention to eat this culture's food, you don't want some weird western "interpretation" of it, or some jackass from NY who thinks putting cream cheese on it makes it "regional". You want to be connected to where that dish first came from, and all the breadth of history that distilled into creating its specific flavors and textures. You want that dish. It doesn't help that when dishes are transported out of their country of origin they get transmuted into some kind of local monstrosity. Tex-mex? Spaghetti and meatballs? "Chinese takeout"? California rolls? It's clearly not the real mccoy, but people still call it "mexican", "italian", "chinese", or "sushi", when it barely resembles those cuisines at all. And don't get me started on trying to find a real burger or bbq anywhere outside this country, to say nothing of those rarer American foods, like drip coffee. And to be honest, there's probably a certain amount of cultural elitism involved in "cuisine" (the French word for "we're better than you"). I've always found the French and Japanese alike in that they both think they're superior to everyone else on earth. That's probably going to result in a lot of uppity people wanting their dish the "superior" way. But for me, it's about wanting to understand and respect the deep cultural traditions that produce singularly unique and beautiful expressions of food.
- unwind 8y ago
  Drip coffee, of course, is the default method in many places. Paper filters were invented in Germany. Really interesting how you feel burgers are less than "real" in other places.
  - peterwwillis 8y ago
    Yes, coffee is made in many different ways around the world. The French, for example, only drink drip coffee at home. The Viennese famously have it strong with whipped cream. Much of the Mediterranean uses an Ottoman-derived concentrated boil method. Trying to find a drip coffee in these places, and many other countries, can be quite difficult. It's not interesting, it's just true.

amingilani 8y ago

I actually think this comment hits a point. It may sound "snobbery" to some, but there are important distinctions to make between the levels of how well something is prepared. The two most important being "proper" and "improper". Burnt rice, rotten meat, and missing ingredients are definite examples of "improper". And cuisines can definitely have constraints on authentic, e.g. hard shell tacos, while delicious, are definitively not "authentic" Mexican. Just like adding spices to my grandmother's (or my) chai is an easy way to lose your head.. it's just not right. Would you like it if your salad resembled more a pasta? Or if you were served pizza as a mixed vegetable platter?[0] I don't think parent^3 was being a snob because he wasn't describing a wine as being "better" because it tastes "oaky". A statement like that is probably deserving of hate, because what does oak even taste like? [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/18/pizza-vegetable-congress-says-so https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/no...