5 ms·

All because everyone wants champagne taste on a beer budget. It reminds me of a Frank Lloyd Wright quote when someone asked for a $5k house and he says “Are you

All because everyone wants champagne taste on a beer budget. It reminds me of a Frank Lloyd Wright quote when someone asked for a $5k house and he says “Are you sure you want a $5,000 house? Most people want a $10,000 house for $5,000.” They could just pitch these as cheaper substitutions and it wouldn’t be so annoying.

tptacek 8y ago
You could say the same thing about vanilla, for which Cooks Illustrated was infamously not able to triangle-test a meaningful preference between artificial and real in a baked goods panel (IIRC, the Milk Bar cookbook went a step further and specified recipes that only worked with artificial vanilla). Sometimes, the artificial ("beer-grade") version is a legit advance. A big problem with truffle oil is that it's too easy to overdo it, which is something you're less likely to do with a $200 black truffle. It's also too easy to add truffle notes to things that aren't really improved by truffle notes. And those two problems compound each other. It can work pretty well on french fries, though!
- naravara 8y ago
  >You could say the same thing about vanilla, for which Cooks Illustrated was infamously not able to triangle-test a meaningful preference between artificial and real in a baked goods panel (IIRC, the Milk Bar cookbook went a step further and specified recipes that only worked with artificial vanilla). Sometimes, the artificial ("beer-grade") version is a legit advance. True. (And TBH I prefer a decent beer to an equivalent tier of champagne) People get wrapped up in the status element of the luxury good and lose sight of the actual use/enjoyment function of the good itself. If we were more comfortable letting the cheap stuff sing in its own right instead of trying to imitate the expensive things we might open a lot of doors for new innovations. Your point about truffle oil makes me think of all those 50s cookbooks doing all kinds of weird stuff with gelatin since gelatinizing stuff wasn’t some absurdly laborious and expensive process anymore. It seems like it took a while for people to realize that entombing all foods in gelatin just because you can is actually. . . Not very good. Haha
  - moopling 8y ago
    I love the story that lobsters used to be peasant food before they became rare, and that it was limited in how frequently it could be fed to prisoners except as a "cruel and unusual" punishment.
    - graphitezepp 8y ago
      It wasn't they became rare, it was ubiquitous refrigeration that made them popular. It was prison food because it was basically spoiled.
      - phonypc 8y ago
        You typically keep lobster alive until cooking, I don't see refrigeration changing much.
        showdead 8y ago
        The popularity of lobster is generally attributed to it being canned and served on the railroads (thinking that they could get away with serving cheap meat to customers in the midwest unfamiliar with it) and then people developing a taste for it.
  - js2 8y ago
    My two favorite things to entomb in gelatin are vodka (jello shots) and cream (panna cotta). Mostly the latter though.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  To be honest I'm a bit sick of truffle fries (often with parmesan on top). It's become a cliche.
- gotocake 8y ago
  The problem with most “truffle oil” is that it’s truly vile, and if you put it next to actual truffle infused oil no one would confuse the two. The problem is that so few people have actually had truffles, never mind truffle infused oil to know. To a greater or lesser extent the same is true for vanilla, although far more people have had the real deal as a reference point. Still vanillin is artificial, but hardly a terrible thing in its own right. As you said there are recipes where the flatter note of vanillin works better than the more subtle and complex floral notes of true vanilla. I’d argue however that truffle oil is always disgusting, and the issue of it being somehow fake or fraudulent is secondary to how nasty it is. Still, in an application like ice cream real vanilla in generous amounts is so much nicer than artificial. Of course ice cream producers figured out that most people aren’t able to tell the difference, lacking experience with a reference point. They realized that black flecks in the mix were what people really looked for, so a market emerged. After vanilla extract is made the bean is totally devoid of flavor, but it’s now ground into flecks and sold as an additive and can be legally listed as “vanilla bean” in the ingredients. On a semi-related note a friend recently told me that “most cinnamon is fake!” It turns out he learned that a lot of cinnamon used is cassia cinnamon, not Ceylon cinnamon. I had to explain to him that they’re both cinnamon, and both great in different applications. If you want bright, spicy cinnamon then cassia is the way to go. If you want floral cinnamon then cinnamomum verum is the way, and if you want something in between with a natural sweetness, Vietnamese cinnamon is it.
  - jacobolus 8y ago
    What do you think a good use for cassia cinnamon is? Those little hard candies? Maybe it’s just that I spent a lot of time in Mexico growing up, but I think ceylon cinnamon is better for every purpose I can think of. I wouldn’t describe it as “floral” though. My impression is that cassia cinnamon is usually used because it is cheaper.
    - gotocake 8y ago
      Definitely ideal for hot candies, and it’s good to add some kick to baked goods. Personally I’m a huge fan of using Ceylon and cassia in the same application to round out the flavor. Cassia is cheaper, but it’s not like it’s the difference between true and fake wasabi.
- arprocter 8y ago
  >A big problem with truffle oil is that it's too easy to overdo it A bit of a shock when a steak sandwich came slathered in it, and the menu made no mention of this Fortunately the person who ordered it didn't mind, but I would've sent it back
- seszett 8y ago
  > IIRC, the Milk Bar cookbook went a step further and specified recipes that only worked with artificial vanilla It's a well known fact of cooking, natural vanilla denatures above a rather low temperature (around 50°C or so, if I recall correctly) but artificial vanilla doesn't. So if you're using vanilla in... crème anglaise (apparently that's the English name for it?) you should use artificial vanilla or pay much attention to adding the vanilla only after it has cooled down enough, but if you're doing ice cream then natural vanilla is a good choice.
  - stan_rogers 8y ago
    Well, the English name for it is custard, but that tended to be mixed up with Bird's in people's minds, so a real custard in a sauce consistency gets the French name for prestige value.
theoh 8y ago
I checked this out. FLW actually said (in the 30s) "a 10k house for 5K", which translates to a 200k house for 100k today. source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4633622 https://www.jstor.org/stable/4633622
- naravara 8y ago
  Ah I misremembered the quote. Thanks. Edited and fixed
- jahewson 8y ago
  Yes indeed. Though most of his so-called $5k houses actually ended up costing around $20k.
  - rwmj 8y ago
    And having leaking roofs.
    - falsedan 8y ago
      that's how you know it's a Frank Lloyd Wright house
Tsubasachan 8y ago
Ha yeah, I have doubts that my €3 frozen pizza really has mozarella cheese made from buffalo milk on it.

tptacek 8y ago

You could say the same thing about vanilla, for which Cooks Illustrated was infamously not able to triangle-test a meaningful preference between artificial and real in a baked goods panel (IIRC, the Milk Bar cookbook went a step further and specified recipes that only worked with artificial vanilla). Sometimes, the artificial ("beer-grade") version is a legit advance. A big problem with truffle oil is that it's too easy to overdo it, which is something you're less likely to do with a $200 black truffle. It's also too easy to add truffle notes to things that aren't really improved by truffle notes. And those two problems compound each other. It can work pretty well on french fries, though!

naravara 8y ago
>You could say the same thing about vanilla, for which Cooks Illustrated was infamously not able to triangle-test a meaningful preference between artificial and real in a baked goods panel (IIRC, the Milk Bar cookbook went a step further and specified recipes that only worked with artificial vanilla). Sometimes, the artificial ("beer-grade") version is a legit advance. True. (And TBH I prefer a decent beer to an equivalent tier of champagne) People get wrapped up in the status element of the luxury good and lose sight of the actual use/enjoyment function of the good itself. If we were more comfortable letting the cheap stuff sing in its own right instead of trying to imitate the expensive things we might open a lot of doors for new innovations. Your point about truffle oil makes me think of all those 50s cookbooks doing all kinds of weird stuff with gelatin since gelatinizing stuff wasn’t some absurdly laborious and expensive process anymore. It seems like it took a while for people to realize that entombing all foods in gelatin just because you can is actually. . . Not very good. Haha
- moopling 8y ago
  I love the story that lobsters used to be peasant food before they became rare, and that it was limited in how frequently it could be fed to prisoners except as a "cruel and unusual" punishment.
  - graphitezepp 8y ago
    It wasn't they became rare, it was ubiquitous refrigeration that made them popular. It was prison food because it was basically spoiled.
    - phonypc 8y ago
      You typically keep lobster alive until cooking, I don't see refrigeration changing much.
      - showdead 8y ago
        The popularity of lobster is generally attributed to it being canned and served on the railroads (thinking that they could get away with serving cheap meat to customers in the midwest unfamiliar with it) and then people developing a taste for it.
- js2 8y ago
  My two favorite things to entomb in gelatin are vodka (jello shots) and cream (panna cotta). Mostly the latter though.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
To be honest I'm a bit sick of truffle fries (often with parmesan on top). It's become a cliche.
gotocake 8y ago
The problem with most “truffle oil” is that it’s truly vile, and if you put it next to actual truffle infused oil no one would confuse the two. The problem is that so few people have actually had truffles, never mind truffle infused oil to know. To a greater or lesser extent the same is true for vanilla, although far more people have had the real deal as a reference point. Still vanillin is artificial, but hardly a terrible thing in its own right. As you said there are recipes where the flatter note of vanillin works better than the more subtle and complex floral notes of true vanilla. I’d argue however that truffle oil is always disgusting, and the issue of it being somehow fake or fraudulent is secondary to how nasty it is. Still, in an application like ice cream real vanilla in generous amounts is so much nicer than artificial. Of course ice cream producers figured out that most people aren’t able to tell the difference, lacking experience with a reference point. They realized that black flecks in the mix were what people really looked for, so a market emerged. After vanilla extract is made the bean is totally devoid of flavor, but it’s now ground into flecks and sold as an additive and can be legally listed as “vanilla bean” in the ingredients. On a semi-related note a friend recently told me that “most cinnamon is fake!” It turns out he learned that a lot of cinnamon used is cassia cinnamon, not Ceylon cinnamon. I had to explain to him that they’re both cinnamon, and both great in different applications. If you want bright, spicy cinnamon then cassia is the way to go. If you want floral cinnamon then cinnamomum verum is the way, and if you want something in between with a natural sweetness, Vietnamese cinnamon is it.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  What do you think a good use for cassia cinnamon is? Those little hard candies? Maybe it’s just that I spent a lot of time in Mexico growing up, but I think ceylon cinnamon is better for every purpose I can think of. I wouldn’t describe it as “floral” though. My impression is that cassia cinnamon is usually used because it is cheaper.
  - gotocake 8y ago
    Definitely ideal for hot candies, and it’s good to add some kick to baked goods. Personally I’m a huge fan of using Ceylon and cassia in the same application to round out the flavor. Cassia is cheaper, but it’s not like it’s the difference between true and fake wasabi.
arprocter 8y ago
>A big problem with truffle oil is that it's too easy to overdo it A bit of a shock when a steak sandwich came slathered in it, and the menu made no mention of this Fortunately the person who ordered it didn't mind, but I would've sent it back
seszett 8y ago
> IIRC, the Milk Bar cookbook went a step further and specified recipes that only worked with artificial vanilla It's a well known fact of cooking, natural vanilla denatures above a rather low temperature (around 50°C or so, if I recall correctly) but artificial vanilla doesn't. So if you're using vanilla in... crème anglaise (apparently that's the English name for it?) you should use artificial vanilla or pay much attention to adding the vanilla only after it has cooled down enough, but if you're doing ice cream then natural vanilla is a good choice.
- stan_rogers 8y ago
  Well, the English name for it is custard, but that tended to be mixed up with Bird's in people's minds, so a real custard in a sauce consistency gets the French name for prestige value.

theoh 8y ago

I checked this out. FLW actually said (in the 30s) "a 10k house for 5K", which translates to a 200k house for 100k today. source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4633622 https://www.jstor.org/stable/4633622

naravara 8y ago
Ah I misremembered the quote. Thanks. Edited and fixed
jahewson 8y ago
Yes indeed. Though most of his so-called $5k houses actually ended up costing around $20k.
- rwmj 8y ago
  And having leaking roofs.
  - falsedan 8y ago
    that's how you know it's a Frank Lloyd Wright house

Tsubasachan 8y ago

Ha yeah, I have doubts that my €3 frozen pizza really has mozarella cheese made from buffalo milk on it.