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I don't disagree regarding AirBNB specifically, but sweeping generalizations about vacation rentals are destructive in communities that really need them to surv

I don't disagree regarding AirBNB specifically, but sweeping generalizations about vacation rentals are destructive in communities that really need them to survive. Dozens of towns across Colorado are depending on this sort of longer-duration vacation tourism for their survival. The ones who do it well will thrive without too much change to their character (and without being colonized by casino companies). And like I said in another comment, hotels are useless for attracting this kind of tourism. AirBNB should behave better, no doubt. And if they don't, they should be made to behave through thoughtful regulation that doesn't endanger the economy and character of places all over the country that are coming to depend on travelers.

mlthoughts2018 8y ago
I’ve spent a lot of summer trips hiking around small vacation towns in Colorado, and I’ve always found regular hotels to be a great way to do it. Occasionally I need to drive a bit more, but it’s not too bad. What I like about hotels is the consistency of service and cleanliness, availability of nearby food or other services. Don’t get me wrong: even though I’ve had some bad experiences with individual hosts on Airbnb, overall many host rentals are nice too. I just don’t understand your negative comments towards hotels. They pay their taxes, they bear their own costs of demonstrating compliance with the law, provide a good standard of safety, cleanliness and service. Obviously the hotel lobbying sucks, but I don’t see how anyone can think it’s worse than what Airbnb does. The hotel lobby is gaming a system in terms of competition, but from within a system overall that is not trying to in principle externalize all the burden onto citizens by skirting taxes. Airbnb is doing something very different, trying to flip tax collection and demonstration of compliance around to make it an optional nicety they choose to extend to local governments on their own terms.
- nate_meurer 8y ago
  > I’ve spent a lot of summer trips hiking around small vacation towns in Colorado, and I’ve always found regular hotels to be a great way to do it. Occasionally I need to drive a bit more, but it’s not too bad. That sounds nice, and it suits a lot of people just fine. But try doing that with a family, and on a limited budget. I'll give you an example: last year I "rented" my own place for a week with family. We crammed thirteen of us into our house (it's properly equipped to sleep 12 but we've never had that many aside from our own family). My father-in-law took us out to dinner the first night, and we ate breakfast at restaurants most mornings. The cost of food was likely over a thousand dollars for the week, but it could easily have been double or triple that if we'd eaten out every day. As it was, some of our money went to the local grocery store instead of restaurants, and we were able to afford a week-long vacation instead of just a weekend. You can't do this in a hotel with mini-fridge and a microwave. If you want to bring your family on a week-long vacation in the Colorado Mountains, and if you're not wealthy, then you do it by renting my house, which has a full kitchen, enough rooms, beds, and foldouts for a large family, and costs half or even a quarter of what the same space a hotel would cost. So it's not that hotels are worse than vacation rentals. They're just different. They serve different markets. If places like mine didn't exist, the groups and families that stay there aren't going to stay in hotels instead; they're not going to come to this town at all, because hotels can't provide comfortable longer-duration vacations that are also affordable for most people. This is extremely important for ski vacations. Skiing is expensive enough as it is, that most people can afford just a few days a year with the hotel, food, and fuel costs that come with it. But my place can make it downright cheap in comparison.
  - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
    In a hotel room with an attached suite, this isn’t very hard. Most in the group can stay in small economy rooms, then use the suite for group things or big meals. My extended family (usually groups of 20+, with various budgets) does this also for beach vacations to book oceanside hotels pretty cheaply, and we also make use of shared spaces, like picnic areas or large table spaces you can use for free at some lodges. I’ve found that groceries in and around big ski centers are often much more expensive than low-end takeout or a pizza.. plus you have to have someone in the group spend time cooking and cleaning instead of just enjoying the trip. Personally, if my budget was too limited to avoid that, or I couldn’t afford one suite at the hotel, it would be a sign that it’s not a financially good idea to plan the trip so soon and I should save money longer before going. The trade-offs are different for everybody, which makes me feel like these just-so anecdotes simply should just be omitted from any discussion about the overall scumminess of Airbnb business practices & lobbying vs hotels.
    - nate_meurer 8y ago
      Hey, if you're ok with fast food and take-out, that's great. Nothing wrong with that, and it gives you flexibility. But if you have to do it in a hotel up here in the mountains, you'll still spend multiples more money than you will at a place like mine -- a place that also gives you a full kitchen. > you have to have someone in the group spend time cooking and cleaning instead of just enjoying the trip. That person is me. I love to cook, and I assure you it's quite possible to enjoy a vacation while making crepes for your friends. :) > it would be a sign that it’s not a financially good idea to plan the trip so soon and I should save money longer before going. Or, if you were able to stay in a home instead of a hotel, you could save enough money to make the trip affordable now, instead of waiting until later in life to enjoy it. It seems like you might just really like hotels. I think that's fine, and I think a lot of people agree with you. Vacations are what you make of them, and it sounds like you've really got your act together. I admire that. But it also seems like you're trying to apply your own standards and experience generally to everyone else. I'm pretty sure if you asked the folks who rented my place for a week over Christmas what they think, they'll say they'd rather not pay twice as much money for a couple of small hotel rooms in Dillon with no kitchen. Because like it or not, that's my competition.

mlthoughts2018 8y ago

I’ve spent a lot of summer trips hiking around small vacation towns in Colorado, and I’ve always found regular hotels to be a great way to do it. Occasionally I need to drive a bit more, but it’s not too bad. What I like about hotels is the consistency of service and cleanliness, availability of nearby food or other services. Don’t get me wrong: even though I’ve had some bad experiences with individual hosts on Airbnb, overall many host rentals are nice too. I just don’t understand your negative comments towards hotels. They pay their taxes, they bear their own costs of demonstrating compliance with the law, provide a good standard of safety, cleanliness and service. Obviously the hotel lobbying sucks, but I don’t see how anyone can think it’s worse than what Airbnb does. The hotel lobby is gaming a system in terms of competition, but from within a system overall that is not trying to in principle externalize all the burden onto citizens by skirting taxes. Airbnb is doing something very different, trying to flip tax collection and demonstration of compliance around to make it an optional nicety they choose to extend to local governments on their own terms.

nate_meurer 8y ago
> I’ve spent a lot of summer trips hiking around small vacation towns in Colorado, and I’ve always found regular hotels to be a great way to do it. Occasionally I need to drive a bit more, but it’s not too bad. That sounds nice, and it suits a lot of people just fine. But try doing that with a family, and on a limited budget. I'll give you an example: last year I "rented" my own place for a week with family. We crammed thirteen of us into our house (it's properly equipped to sleep 12 but we've never had that many aside from our own family). My father-in-law took us out to dinner the first night, and we ate breakfast at restaurants most mornings. The cost of food was likely over a thousand dollars for the week, but it could easily have been double or triple that if we'd eaten out every day. As it was, some of our money went to the local grocery store instead of restaurants, and we were able to afford a week-long vacation instead of just a weekend. You can't do this in a hotel with mini-fridge and a microwave. If you want to bring your family on a week-long vacation in the Colorado Mountains, and if you're not wealthy, then you do it by renting my house, which has a full kitchen, enough rooms, beds, and foldouts for a large family, and costs half or even a quarter of what the same space a hotel would cost. So it's not that hotels are worse than vacation rentals. They're just different. They serve different markets. If places like mine didn't exist, the groups and families that stay there aren't going to stay in hotels instead; they're not going to come to this town at all, because hotels can't provide comfortable longer-duration vacations that are also affordable for most people. This is extremely important for ski vacations. Skiing is expensive enough as it is, that most people can afford just a few days a year with the hotel, food, and fuel costs that come with it. But my place can make it downright cheap in comparison.
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  In a hotel room with an attached suite, this isn’t very hard. Most in the group can stay in small economy rooms, then use the suite for group things or big meals. My extended family (usually groups of 20+, with various budgets) does this also for beach vacations to book oceanside hotels pretty cheaply, and we also make use of shared spaces, like picnic areas or large table spaces you can use for free at some lodges. I’ve found that groceries in and around big ski centers are often much more expensive than low-end takeout or a pizza.. plus you have to have someone in the group spend time cooking and cleaning instead of just enjoying the trip. Personally, if my budget was too limited to avoid that, or I couldn’t afford one suite at the hotel, it would be a sign that it’s not a financially good idea to plan the trip so soon and I should save money longer before going. The trade-offs are different for everybody, which makes me feel like these just-so anecdotes simply should just be omitted from any discussion about the overall scumminess of Airbnb business practices & lobbying vs hotels.
  - nate_meurer 8y ago
    Hey, if you're ok with fast food and take-out, that's great. Nothing wrong with that, and it gives you flexibility. But if you have to do it in a hotel up here in the mountains, you'll still spend multiples more money than you will at a place like mine -- a place that also gives you a full kitchen. > you have to have someone in the group spend time cooking and cleaning instead of just enjoying the trip. That person is me. I love to cook, and I assure you it's quite possible to enjoy a vacation while making crepes for your friends. :) > it would be a sign that it’s not a financially good idea to plan the trip so soon and I should save money longer before going. Or, if you were able to stay in a home instead of a hotel, you could save enough money to make the trip affordable now, instead of waiting until later in life to enjoy it. It seems like you might just really like hotels. I think that's fine, and I think a lot of people agree with you. Vacations are what you make of them, and it sounds like you've really got your act together. I admire that. But it also seems like you're trying to apply your own standards and experience generally to everyone else. I'm pretty sure if you asked the folks who rented my place for a week over Christmas what they think, they'll say they'd rather not pay twice as much money for a couple of small hotel rooms in Dillon with no kitchen. Because like it or not, that's my competition.