5 ms·

Morality is relative but it isn't subjective. Slaughtering innocents for political purposes is a universally evil act.

RobertRoberts 8y ago
This brings up the hypocrisy of those that want to shut down speech based on their personal views. More people died in 9/11, but those videos are all over the place, even on youtube. Those planes hitting those specific builder _were_ the message of the terrorists.
kbenson 8y ago
It feels good to say stuff like that, and it's the kind of reality I want to live in, but my whole point is: - Define innocent - Define political - Define evil In way that is independent of the culture in which it takes place. It might even be possible to do so, or come close, when limited to current cultures and Humans. That's a far cry from proved as universal though. It's been quite a while since I read it, but I believe this short story[1] covers some of the ground I'm trying to express. Note: If you key off humans/aliens, I think you're missing the point. 1: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/n5TqCuizyJDfAPjkr/the-baby-eating-aliens-1-8 https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/n5TqCuizyJDfAPjkr/the-baby-e...
- root_axis 8y ago
  > It feels good to say stuff like that, and it's the kind of reality I want to live in, but my whole point is: I think the opposite is true. It is gratifying to the logical mind to process this event through the lens of pedantic philosophical analysis, but in real life most things aren't so ambiguous and they definitely aren't ambiguous in this case. > Define innocent In this context I define innocent as "undeserving of abrupt and violent execution". > Define political In this context I define political as "of or with regard to government or government policy". > Define evil In this context I define evil as "a profoundly immoral act". Seems pretty straightforward. Unfortunately, I don't have time to read the story you linked (though it does seem interesting even though I am generally not a fan of yudkowsky's writings), but if you want to summarize it I don't mind addressing that summary.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    > In this context I define innocent as "undeserving of abrupt and violent execution". Okay, you've traded innocent for undeserving. That doesn't feel any more definitive to me. Who's undeserving? > In this context I define political as "of or with regard to government or government policy". Governments are made up of the people. If they aren't enslaved, then they have some responsibility for the action of said government. It's one group of people doing something to another group. Whether it's from some government or not is irrelevant. For example, is not a non-government group advocating for the eradication of a subgroup of people evil in your reasoning? That's not political in any way. > In this context I define evil as "a profoundly immoral act". You've already stated morality is relative in your first comment. You're relying on a relative assessment to claim something as universal. > Seems pretty straightforward. It seems fairly shaky to me.

This brings up the hypocrisy of those that want to shut down speech based on their personal views. More people died in 9/11, but those videos are all over the place, even on youtube. Those planes hitting those specific builder _were_ the message of the terrorists.

kbenson 8y ago

It feels good to say stuff like that, and it's the kind of reality I want to live in, but my whole point is: - Define innocent - Define political - Define evil In way that is independent of the culture in which it takes place. It might even be possible to do so, or come close, when limited to current cultures and Humans. That's a far cry from proved as universal though. It's been quite a while since I read it, but I believe this short story[1] covers some of the ground I'm trying to express. Note: If you key off humans/aliens, I think you're missing the point. 1: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/n5TqCuizyJDfAPjkr/the-baby-eating-aliens-1-8 https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/n5TqCuizyJDfAPjkr/the-baby-e...

root_axis 8y ago
> It feels good to say stuff like that, and it's the kind of reality I want to live in, but my whole point is: I think the opposite is true. It is gratifying to the logical mind to process this event through the lens of pedantic philosophical analysis, but in real life most things aren't so ambiguous and they definitely aren't ambiguous in this case. > Define innocent In this context I define innocent as "undeserving of abrupt and violent execution". > Define political In this context I define political as "of or with regard to government or government policy". > Define evil In this context I define evil as "a profoundly immoral act". Seems pretty straightforward. Unfortunately, I don't have time to read the story you linked (though it does seem interesting even though I am generally not a fan of yudkowsky's writings), but if you want to summarize it I don't mind addressing that summary.
- kbenson 8y ago
  > In this context I define innocent as "undeserving of abrupt and violent execution". Okay, you've traded innocent for undeserving. That doesn't feel any more definitive to me. Who's undeserving? > In this context I define political as "of or with regard to government or government policy". Governments are made up of the people. If they aren't enslaved, then they have some responsibility for the action of said government. It's one group of people doing something to another group. Whether it's from some government or not is irrelevant. For example, is not a non-government group advocating for the eradication of a subgroup of people evil in your reasoning? That's not political in any way. > In this context I define evil as "a profoundly immoral act". You've already stated morality is relative in your first comment. You're relying on a relative assessment to claim something as universal. > Seems pretty straightforward. It seems fairly shaky to me.