5 ms·

> 100% remote - work from wherever you want > $91,476 - The salary of an entry-level front-end developer These two things should not be next to each other. It

> 100% remote - work from wherever you want > $91,476 - The salary of an entry-level front-end developer These two things should not be next to each other. It's exceptionally rare to get $90k a year remotely with no prior work experience.

tenaciousDaniel 8y ago
Correct. My first job as a junior full stack dev was $76K, and that was in NYC.
EpicEng 8y ago
I've worked as a hiring manager and... yes, there's simply no way I would hire a remote junior dev, and certainly not at that salary.
- louisswiss 8y ago
  Good to know. Out of interest, what would you say are the key weaknesses at your company that makes successfully hiring, training and managing juniors for remote roles impossible?
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    >Out of interest, what would you say are the key weaknesses at your company that makes successfully hiring, training and managing juniors for remote roles impossible? Faulty premise. I would say that it's simply not worth the risk for someone with essentially no way to show they can actually do the work and manage themselves.
    - louisswiss 8y ago
      The magnitude of risk depends to a large degree on the employer. > someone with essentially no way to show they can actually do the work and manage themselves. Two quick follow up points on that (the second point is more important)... 1. Junior devs graduating from places like this and Lambda School will have spent months learning, collaborating and working remotely as part of their course. I wouldn't say that counts as proof that they can do the work per se, but it's definitely proof that - if they can do they work - they can do it remotely. 2. You have the same challenges with non-remote hires as well... What part of your hiring/onboarding/management process requires you to be able to physically touch the junior dev in question? BTW I absolutely don't think all companies should hire remote. And I don't think all junior devs would be good remote hires. Far from it. But there are enough successful companies out there hiring remote junior devs to prove that it is possible. So when someone says they would never hire a remote junior dev, it just seems silly to me to pretend that's anything more than a company masking serious hiring, training or culture problems which remote work would expose...
fm95 8y ago
It's disingenuous to place this figure there without specifying the location. Even in places with high COL, 91k as an entry-level front end dev is unrealistic if they have no prior experience. And if this is assuming you'd be remote, that's even more ridiculous. 91k off the bat with 0 prior experience in the industry working from wherever you want sounds like a fantasy.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  > Even in places with high COL, 91k as an entry-level front end dev is unrealistic if they have no prior experience. In the metro Boston area, fresh college grads are getting $100K+bonus typically, with upside from there. I think $91K is not at all unrealistic.
  - Latteland 8y ago
    130k plus is the typical salary with a college grad in a top company. We are a startup in Seattle, not a unicorn, you've probably not heard of us, and we pay 135k + options for new college hires. We are told our comp is too low by people.
    - strikelaserclaw 8y ago
      I mean those are your cream of the crop type candidates i'm assuming not a person who just got pumped out of a 12 week bootcamp. I would assume < 10% of people with no experience entering the field get 100k+. Even 10% might be a large number.
      - Latteland 8y ago
        They are very good bachelors. I don't think someone with 12 weeks in bootcamp can pass the interview bar. We ask about multithreaded programming in C++, a series of programming challenges, and about theory of computer science, software engineering principals. Nothing that I wouldn't expect from my previous experience with fang like companies.
roghummal 8y ago
I read the 'remote' bit to be referring to where you do your course work.

tenaciousDaniel 8y ago

Correct. My first job as a junior full stack dev was $76K, and that was in NYC.

EpicEng 8y ago

I've worked as a hiring manager and... yes, there's simply no way I would hire a remote junior dev, and certainly not at that salary.

louisswiss 8y ago
Good to know. Out of interest, what would you say are the key weaknesses at your company that makes successfully hiring, training and managing juniors for remote roles impossible?
- EpicEng 8y ago
  >Out of interest, what would you say are the key weaknesses at your company that makes successfully hiring, training and managing juniors for remote roles impossible? Faulty premise. I would say that it's simply not worth the risk for someone with essentially no way to show they can actually do the work and manage themselves.
  - louisswiss 8y ago
    The magnitude of risk depends to a large degree on the employer. > someone with essentially no way to show they can actually do the work and manage themselves. Two quick follow up points on that (the second point is more important)... 1. Junior devs graduating from places like this and Lambda School will have spent months learning, collaborating and working remotely as part of their course. I wouldn't say that counts as proof that they can do the work per se, but it's definitely proof that - if they can do they work - they can do it remotely. 2. You have the same challenges with non-remote hires as well... What part of your hiring/onboarding/management process requires you to be able to physically touch the junior dev in question? BTW I absolutely don't think all companies should hire remote. And I don't think all junior devs would be good remote hires. Far from it. But there are enough successful companies out there hiring remote junior devs to prove that it is possible. So when someone says they would never hire a remote junior dev, it just seems silly to me to pretend that's anything more than a company masking serious hiring, training or culture problems which remote work would expose...

fm95 8y ago

It's disingenuous to place this figure there without specifying the location. Even in places with high COL, 91k as an entry-level front end dev is unrealistic if they have no prior experience. And if this is assuming you'd be remote, that's even more ridiculous. 91k off the bat with 0 prior experience in the industry working from wherever you want sounds like a fantasy.

sokoloff 8y ago
> Even in places with high COL, 91k as an entry-level front end dev is unrealistic if they have no prior experience. In the metro Boston area, fresh college grads are getting $100K+bonus typically, with upside from there. I think $91K is not at all unrealistic.
- Latteland 8y ago
  130k plus is the typical salary with a college grad in a top company. We are a startup in Seattle, not a unicorn, you've probably not heard of us, and we pay 135k + options for new college hires. We are told our comp is too low by people.
  - strikelaserclaw 8y ago
    I mean those are your cream of the crop type candidates i'm assuming not a person who just got pumped out of a 12 week bootcamp. I would assume < 10% of people with no experience entering the field get 100k+. Even 10% might be a large number.
    - Latteland 8y ago
      They are very good bachelors. I don't think someone with 12 weeks in bootcamp can pass the interview bar. We ask about multithreaded programming in C++, a series of programming challenges, and about theory of computer science, software engineering principals. Nothing that I wouldn't expect from my previous experience with fang like companies.

roghummal 8y ago

I read the 'remote' bit to be referring to where you do your course work.