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I run a vacation rental in a small town in the mountains of Colorado. I'm quite happy to pay the taxes the town demands. Our place is busy, and our guests mak

I run a vacation rental in a small town in the mountains of Colorado. I'm quite happy to pay the taxes the town demands. Our place is busy, and our guests make a significant impact on the town, spending a lot of money in local shops and restaurants. On the other hand, there is increased wear on city and county roads (many of which are gravel), and increased load on water, sewer, and sanitation services. Cities and counties need money to provide us with the services we depend on to run our little business. Reasonable taxes and fees are a fair, expected, and necessary price. The little town we're in has struck a decent balance price-wise, and they also have a decent regulatory system set up that's designed to ensure that neighbors' complaints about parking, noise, and trash are addressed. We're very by-the-book operators. I want the city to see money from me because I want them to have an interest in protecting my business. There are a couple of hotels under construction in town, which makes me nervous. Hotels hate vacation rentals. I'm not fond of AirBNB as a corporate citizen, but the Hoteliers cartel is dirtier. I wouldn't be surprised if the new hotels lobby the town to ban vacation rentals outright, or craft lethal regulations like those in Tennessee recently that require all vacation rentals to install fire-suppression sprinklers [https://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2015/jan/3/cities-acro... https://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2015/jan/3/cities-acro...].

cbsks 8y ago
>On the other hand, there is increased wear on city and county roads (many of which are gravel), and increased load on water, sewer, and sanitation services. Why would renters cause more wear on those resources than full time occupants?
- nate_meurer 8y ago
  Great question. In my case, the home is consistently occupied by more people than would otherwise be living there full time, and they're much more active than a family of permanent residents would be. They eat out a lot, drive around the town and up mountain roads, and if they're skiiers or outdoor sports-people, they're in and out of town every day. Guests are usually groups of blended family and friends, so there are more cars. This is true for us when we visit our own place; we often bring family or friends, and they bring more cars. The dirt road leading to our house definitely notices the traffic. And then there's the water and trash. Bloody fucking hell vacation rental guests generate a lot of trash. I'm working on some ways to encourage reduced consumption, and I stock only recycled paper products -- toilet tissue particularly is a sore point with me. I con't believe how much toilet paper people use. It pisses me off enough that I'm playing with the idea of charging for it. Otherwise, we've had mostly good luck with our guests. Mostly. I won't rent to anyone under 25, and I'm really strict about that. I also completely banned smoking of any kind anywhere on the property, inside or outside. These things have helped.
  - acct1771 8y ago
    If your native language isn't English, what is it? I have to know =]
    - nate_meurer 8y ago
      American English. I hope. :) Does my writing seem otherwise?
      - nkingsy 8y ago
        I think "toilet tissue", and "bloody hell" aren't american standard.
        nate_meurer 8y ago
        Bloody hell is firmly a part of my everyday lexicon. It's not really a cuss word here so it can replace my preferred F words in polite company. Toilet tissue is just me being confused. I buy toilet paper, facial tissue, and paper towels in enormous quantities from costco. All recycled, but it's still a mountain of paper and tissue. I have to figure something out.
      - acct1771 8y ago
        "I con't" made me wonder
  - leesalminen 8y ago
    You could tell people that the septic system is not designed for large amounts of paper and is prone to clogging. Tell them that if that happens, there will be a pricey charge for a plumber to come out. You’re scaring them into being mindful without the negative taste of charging for use of toilet paper. How do you ban smoking outside? Are you on property keeping tabs on your guests every move?
    - nate_meurer 8y ago
      I have a nose like a bloodhound. If someone has been smoking in the house, there is no way to hide it from me. My cleaning lady is also somewhat of a detective and has been known to go through the trash if she thinks rules have been broken. Smoking outside is a different problem. Until recently I didn't forbid it, but earlier this year I found cigarette butts in the brush below the deck, along with a burn mark on the dining table and cigarettes in the trash. That was from a large group of college aged boys. In normal dry conditions, Colorado mountain country is like a big pile of kindling just waiting for some dumbass to toss a cigarette butt into the pine needles and set the town ablaze. This incident really freaked me out. I took their entire security deposit, and added rules and a stern warning to my listing. At some point I'll install a camera outside to watch the deck and back yard, because I know it will happen again.
- brandonmenc 8y ago
  > Why would renters cause more wear on those resources than full time occupants? When you travel, how many people do you cram into a single room? How much are you driving around the town you're visiting? The answer to both is: probably a lot more than someone who lives there.
jak92 8y ago
> I run a vacation rental in a small town in the mountains of Colorado. I'm quite happy to pay the taxes the town demands. Do you collect the same taxes as hotels do? Have you registered as a business with your city?
- alistairSH 8y ago
  Not the OP, but my dad has as beach house that gets rented out weekly over the summer. He pays short-term rental property taxes to the county. No idea if it's the same rate as hotels, but it is a tax above what a non-renting owner would pay.
- nate_meurer 8y ago
  Well, since the city collects taxes from us, they'd naturally be aware that we're running a business, don't you think? :) Yes, we have a Colorado sales tax license and a city-issued business license, both hanging on the wall like any other business. Every vacation rental in town -- many dozens of them in all -- does the same. The town is small, neighbors are watchful, and city enforcement is strict. We pay lodging and sales tax, same as a hotels. My rental rates are about half the cost for the same space in a hotel, and it's way nicer. You don't get a full kitchen in a hotel. We pump a lot of money into the local economy -- much more than we would if we lived there full time. My cleaning lady made about $8000 off our house last year. Guests tend to be pretty active patrons of restaurants and shops, and when they eat at the home they buy food from a little grocery in town. The nearest supermarket is 45 minutes away. It sucks that your neighborhood is suffering. But I rather doubt your situation would be much better if all the tourists were staying in hotels rather than airbnb's. Touristy destinations all face challenges, and there are myriad ways a city can screw it up. But not everywhere is like Miami. A lot of our mountain towns are slowly dying. Some of them of tried to stay alive by legalizing casino gambling. It seems to work, but it turns your town into a casino town. Other towns are trying to navigate a delicate but potentially rewarding transition to being the kind of vacation destinations that people want to stay at for a week or more. Hotels can't help your town get that kind of business. Again, no kitchens. If I can help my town make that transition and also have a successful business for myself, it's a win-win for everybody.
siruncledrew 8y ago
Your story shows an example of doing things the "proper way" - you operate by-the-book, you take responsibility for the property, and you're an active local small biz participant. The bigger issue is the people not doing these things. There are hosts (and guests) that simply don't give a fuck about others. Hosts (especially ones that don't live in the area) couldn't care less about their impact on the neighborhood as long as money keeps coming into their bank account, and will try their hardest to take shortcuts and avoid responsibility. Some "hosts" are more like wannabe slumlords. "Bad actor" guests also don't care about what happens to a place they are going to leave, which leads to things like trash, disturbances, and stealing. A problem with Airbnb is that properties are not siloed; there is an environment around them. There's many places on Airbnb that are better than hotels, and there's a lot of economic impact on local communities. Airbnb needs to re-evaluate how these places are part of a community rather than isolated from one. The "sunshine and rainbows" sentiment behind why Airbnb exists is a nice thought, but the platform is rolling into a snowball of consequences and externalities. Assholes are going to be assholes, so many bad experiences are not from normal transactions, but from assholes using Airbnb to their advantage and Airbnb turning their cheek.
- TheGRS 8y ago
  Personally I've had amazing experiences on AirBnB, to the point where I usually try to make an AirBnB work over a hotel. This of course is due to certain hosts going above and beyond the call of duty. And then I've had experiences where I wonder why I didn't get a hotel for slightly more. Usually in the city where the host owns 20+ properties and really don't give 2 shits about the experience. I do think this service needs to exist, if only to improve the overall travel experience, but yea they need to do some vetting or figure out a much better pricing structure. I love the idea of living like a local in some apartment building, but so far this experience has usually been pretty subpar for me.
- nate_meurer 8y ago
  I don't disagree regarding AirBNB specifically, but sweeping generalizations about vacation rentals are destructive in communities that really need them to survive. Dozens of towns across Colorado are depending on this sort of longer-duration vacation tourism for their survival. The ones who do it well will thrive without too much change to their character (and without being colonized by casino companies). And like I said in another comment, hotels are useless for attracting this kind of tourism. AirBNB should behave better, no doubt. And if they don't, they should be made to behave through thoughtful regulation that doesn't endanger the economy and character of places all over the country that are coming to depend on travelers.
masonic 8y ago
Our place is busy, and our guests make a significant impact on the town, spending a lot of money in local shops and restaurants. More than actual full-time residents would?
- nate_meurer 8y ago
  Yes definitely. The degree varies by establishment. Most of the shops downtown -- the art stores, rock shop, gift and clothing shops in particular -- are utterly dependent on tourism. Locals don't buy local art and crafts, and they don't buy leather jackets and hats tastefully embossed with the town's name. The town's grocer is pretty dependent on vacationers. Locals do more of the 45 minute drive to Walmart once a week. The restaurants in town get more local business, but I'm aware from comments and reviews that our guests eat out a lot. Even with a full kitchen, it's common for people to eat out more on vacation than they would normally at home, especially when the restaurants are seen to be part of a town's charm and reputation. Which is why I put out the menus on a side table in my home's entryway, just like the hotels do in their lobbies. When we bring family there, we eat out a lot. We walk downtown to get ice cream in the little candy store. We never do that at home in Denver. I don't take the kids to ice cream at home. That's what vacations are for! I say, "You are naughty, awful, disappointing children, but if you be good from now on maybe we'll go on vacation again and get ice cream". I know I'm not the only one.

cbsks 8y ago

>On the other hand, there is increased wear on city and county roads (many of which are gravel), and increased load on water, sewer, and sanitation services. Why would renters cause more wear on those resources than full time occupants?

nate_meurer 8y ago
Great question. In my case, the home is consistently occupied by more people than would otherwise be living there full time, and they're much more active than a family of permanent residents would be. They eat out a lot, drive around the town and up mountain roads, and if they're skiiers or outdoor sports-people, they're in and out of town every day. Guests are usually groups of blended family and friends, so there are more cars. This is true for us when we visit our own place; we often bring family or friends, and they bring more cars. The dirt road leading to our house definitely notices the traffic. And then there's the water and trash. Bloody fucking hell vacation rental guests generate a lot of trash. I'm working on some ways to encourage reduced consumption, and I stock only recycled paper products -- toilet tissue particularly is a sore point with me. I con't believe how much toilet paper people use. It pisses me off enough that I'm playing with the idea of charging for it. Otherwise, we've had mostly good luck with our guests. Mostly. I won't rent to anyone under 25, and I'm really strict about that. I also completely banned smoking of any kind anywhere on the property, inside or outside. These things have helped.
- acct1771 8y ago
  If your native language isn't English, what is it? I have to know =]
  - nate_meurer 8y ago
    American English. I hope. :) Does my writing seem otherwise?
    - nkingsy 8y ago
      I think "toilet tissue", and "bloody hell" aren't american standard.
      - nate_meurer 8y ago
        Bloody hell is firmly a part of my everyday lexicon. It's not really a cuss word here so it can replace my preferred F words in polite company. Toilet tissue is just me being confused. I buy toilet paper, facial tissue, and paper towels in enormous quantities from costco. All recycled, but it's still a mountain of paper and tissue. I have to figure something out.
    - acct1771 8y ago
      "I con't" made me wonder
- leesalminen 8y ago
  You could tell people that the septic system is not designed for large amounts of paper and is prone to clogging. Tell them that if that happens, there will be a pricey charge for a plumber to come out. You’re scaring them into being mindful without the negative taste of charging for use of toilet paper. How do you ban smoking outside? Are you on property keeping tabs on your guests every move?
  - nate_meurer 8y ago
    I have a nose like a bloodhound. If someone has been smoking in the house, there is no way to hide it from me. My cleaning lady is also somewhat of a detective and has been known to go through the trash if she thinks rules have been broken. Smoking outside is a different problem. Until recently I didn't forbid it, but earlier this year I found cigarette butts in the brush below the deck, along with a burn mark on the dining table and cigarettes in the trash. That was from a large group of college aged boys. In normal dry conditions, Colorado mountain country is like a big pile of kindling just waiting for some dumbass to toss a cigarette butt into the pine needles and set the town ablaze. This incident really freaked me out. I took their entire security deposit, and added rules and a stern warning to my listing. At some point I'll install a camera outside to watch the deck and back yard, because I know it will happen again.
brandonmenc 8y ago
> Why would renters cause more wear on those resources than full time occupants? When you travel, how many people do you cram into a single room? How much are you driving around the town you're visiting? The answer to both is: probably a lot more than someone who lives there.

jak92 8y ago

> I run a vacation rental in a small town in the mountains of Colorado. I'm quite happy to pay the taxes the town demands. Do you collect the same taxes as hotels do? Have you registered as a business with your city?

alistairSH 8y ago
Not the OP, but my dad has as beach house that gets rented out weekly over the summer. He pays short-term rental property taxes to the county. No idea if it's the same rate as hotels, but it is a tax above what a non-renting owner would pay.
nate_meurer 8y ago
Well, since the city collects taxes from us, they'd naturally be aware that we're running a business, don't you think? :) Yes, we have a Colorado sales tax license and a city-issued business license, both hanging on the wall like any other business. Every vacation rental in town -- many dozens of them in all -- does the same. The town is small, neighbors are watchful, and city enforcement is strict. We pay lodging and sales tax, same as a hotels. My rental rates are about half the cost for the same space in a hotel, and it's way nicer. You don't get a full kitchen in a hotel. We pump a lot of money into the local economy -- much more than we would if we lived there full time. My cleaning lady made about $8000 off our house last year. Guests tend to be pretty active patrons of restaurants and shops, and when they eat at the home they buy food from a little grocery in town. The nearest supermarket is 45 minutes away. It sucks that your neighborhood is suffering. But I rather doubt your situation would be much better if all the tourists were staying in hotels rather than airbnb's. Touristy destinations all face challenges, and there are myriad ways a city can screw it up. But not everywhere is like Miami. A lot of our mountain towns are slowly dying. Some of them of tried to stay alive by legalizing casino gambling. It seems to work, but it turns your town into a casino town. Other towns are trying to navigate a delicate but potentially rewarding transition to being the kind of vacation destinations that people want to stay at for a week or more. Hotels can't help your town get that kind of business. Again, no kitchens. If I can help my town make that transition and also have a successful business for myself, it's a win-win for everybody.

siruncledrew 8y ago

Your story shows an example of doing things the "proper way" - you operate by-the-book, you take responsibility for the property, and you're an active local small biz participant. The bigger issue is the people not doing these things. There are hosts (and guests) that simply don't give a fuck about others. Hosts (especially ones that don't live in the area) couldn't care less about their impact on the neighborhood as long as money keeps coming into their bank account, and will try their hardest to take shortcuts and avoid responsibility. Some "hosts" are more like wannabe slumlords. "Bad actor" guests also don't care about what happens to a place they are going to leave, which leads to things like trash, disturbances, and stealing. A problem with Airbnb is that properties are not siloed; there is an environment around them. There's many places on Airbnb that are better than hotels, and there's a lot of economic impact on local communities. Airbnb needs to re-evaluate how these places are part of a community rather than isolated from one. The "sunshine and rainbows" sentiment behind why Airbnb exists is a nice thought, but the platform is rolling into a snowball of consequences and externalities. Assholes are going to be assholes, so many bad experiences are not from normal transactions, but from assholes using Airbnb to their advantage and Airbnb turning their cheek.

TheGRS 8y ago
Personally I've had amazing experiences on AirBnB, to the point where I usually try to make an AirBnB work over a hotel. This of course is due to certain hosts going above and beyond the call of duty. And then I've had experiences where I wonder why I didn't get a hotel for slightly more. Usually in the city where the host owns 20+ properties and really don't give 2 shits about the experience. I do think this service needs to exist, if only to improve the overall travel experience, but yea they need to do some vetting or figure out a much better pricing structure. I love the idea of living like a local in some apartment building, but so far this experience has usually been pretty subpar for me.
nate_meurer 8y ago
I don't disagree regarding AirBNB specifically, but sweeping generalizations about vacation rentals are destructive in communities that really need them to survive. Dozens of towns across Colorado are depending on this sort of longer-duration vacation tourism for their survival. The ones who do it well will thrive without too much change to their character (and without being colonized by casino companies). And like I said in another comment, hotels are useless for attracting this kind of tourism. AirBNB should behave better, no doubt. And if they don't, they should be made to behave through thoughtful regulation that doesn't endanger the economy and character of places all over the country that are coming to depend on travelers.

masonic 8y ago

Our place is busy, and our guests make a significant impact on the town, spending a lot of money in local shops and restaurants. More than actual full-time residents would?

nate_meurer 8y ago
Yes definitely. The degree varies by establishment. Most of the shops downtown -- the art stores, rock shop, gift and clothing shops in particular -- are utterly dependent on tourism. Locals don't buy local art and crafts, and they don't buy leather jackets and hats tastefully embossed with the town's name. The town's grocer is pretty dependent on vacationers. Locals do more of the 45 minute drive to Walmart once a week. The restaurants in town get more local business, but I'm aware from comments and reviews that our guests eat out a lot. Even with a full kitchen, it's common for people to eat out more on vacation than they would normally at home, especially when the restaurants are seen to be part of a town's charm and reputation. Which is why I put out the menus on a side table in my home's entryway, just like the hotels do in their lobbies. When we bring family there, we eat out a lot. We walk downtown to get ice cream in the little candy store. We never do that at home in Denver. I don't take the kids to ice cream at home. That's what vacations are for! I say, "You are naughty, awful, disappointing children, but if you be good from now on maybe we'll go on vacation again and get ice cream". I know I'm not the only one.