4 ms·

I read Jane Jacobs in grad school (surprisingly relevant even after five decades), and I think she would question whether all of that traffic needs to exist in

I read Jane Jacobs in grad school (surprisingly relevant even after five decades), and I think she would question whether all of that traffic needs to exist in the first place. The article mentions "micromanaged" zoning in North America, one element of which seems to be that no residential window should ever face a commercial enterprise. Allowing small shops and restaurants to exist within residential areas (as they do in Europe and elsewhere) would eliminate some amount of the car traffic we current accept as normal. When every destination requires a car, every street becomes a stroad.

ghaff 8y ago
I think that's a fair assessment of Jane Jacobs' view. At the same time, a lot of people read Jacobs somewhat selectively. She may not have wanted multi-lane traffic to go through Washington Square Park and [have wanted] mixed-use organic growth. However, she was also in general very much not in favor of bulldozing swaths of low-rise housing to build large apartment blocks as many seem to feel is the antidote to high housing prices in the city of their choice. ADDED: I expect a lot of folks here would absolutely characterize Jabobs as a NIMBY in a lot of ways given that I think it's fair to say she was far more concerned with the livability of cities for their residents than enabling a large population influx.
- the_gastropod 8y ago
  Low-rise housing isn't really the problem. Take Barcelona, for example, which has nearly twice the population density as New York City—the U.S.'s densest city. Barcelona does have high-rises, but much of its density can be attributed to its narrow streets. So, while bulldozing low-rise buildings in poor neighborhoods to build highrise apartment buildings would increase density, it's a very costly and inequitable way of doing it, especially when SO much area of NYC (and all U.S. cities) is designated exclusively for personal automobiles.
  - Steltek 8y ago
    Highrise apartments ("bulk housing") is the obvious outcome of where ridiculous zoning has taken us. If cities were allowed to organically build upwards in duplexes and triplexes, we'd have naturally higher density/capacity without the need for adrenaline shots of highrise apartment buildings.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      >If cities were allowed to organically build upwards Zoning is no doubt sometimes the issue. But there's a lot of evidence that, given availability of land at the time of initial construction, the organic behavior tends toward detached single-family homes and duplexes.
      - bluGill 8y ago
        initial construction is not an end state though. Towns change over time. Some locations are desirable and rich will always keep them like that because they are willing to pay for it. Some locations become less desirable and the rich move out leaving a poorer class to move in, this class is willing for an apartment because it is cheaper for them.
        ghaff 8y ago
        >Towns change over time. Indeed, they do. And I'm not defending all resistance to zoning changes, etc. But, if you have a large swath of 1-2 story housing, even in the absence of significant zoning and permitting restrictions, it's probably going to be a very slow process for that to densify into 3-5 story housing organically.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    That New York City number is for all 5 boroughs though including Staten Island, which is almost suburban. Manhattan is about twice as dense as Barcelona. (Density numbers are always tricky. The figures change a lot depending upon which boundaries you use.)
  - vonmoltke 8y ago
    > especially when SO much area of NYC (and all U.S. cities) is designated exclusively for personal automobiles What roads are exclusively for personal automobiles?
    - the_gastropod 8y ago
      Residential on-street parking for starters.

ghaff 8y ago

I think that's a fair assessment of Jane Jacobs' view. At the same time, a lot of people read Jacobs somewhat selectively. She may not have wanted multi-lane traffic to go through Washington Square Park and [have wanted] mixed-use organic growth. However, she was also in general very much not in favor of bulldozing swaths of low-rise housing to build large apartment blocks as many seem to feel is the antidote to high housing prices in the city of their choice. ADDED: I expect a lot of folks here would absolutely characterize Jabobs as a NIMBY in a lot of ways given that I think it's fair to say she was far more concerned with the livability of cities for their residents than enabling a large population influx.

the_gastropod 8y ago
Low-rise housing isn't really the problem. Take Barcelona, for example, which has nearly twice the population density as New York City—the U.S.'s densest city. Barcelona does have high-rises, but much of its density can be attributed to its narrow streets. So, while bulldozing low-rise buildings in poor neighborhoods to build highrise apartment buildings would increase density, it's a very costly and inequitable way of doing it, especially when SO much area of NYC (and all U.S. cities) is designated exclusively for personal automobiles.
- Steltek 8y ago
  Highrise apartments ("bulk housing") is the obvious outcome of where ridiculous zoning has taken us. If cities were allowed to organically build upwards in duplexes and triplexes, we'd have naturally higher density/capacity without the need for adrenaline shots of highrise apartment buildings.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    >If cities were allowed to organically build upwards Zoning is no doubt sometimes the issue. But there's a lot of evidence that, given availability of land at the time of initial construction, the organic behavior tends toward detached single-family homes and duplexes.
    - bluGill 8y ago
      initial construction is not an end state though. Towns change over time. Some locations are desirable and rich will always keep them like that because they are willing to pay for it. Some locations become less desirable and the rich move out leaving a poorer class to move in, this class is willing for an apartment because it is cheaper for them.
      - ghaff 8y ago
        >Towns change over time. Indeed, they do. And I'm not defending all resistance to zoning changes, etc. But, if you have a large swath of 1-2 story housing, even in the absence of significant zoning and permitting restrictions, it's probably going to be a very slow process for that to densify into 3-5 story housing organically.
- ghaff 8y ago
  That New York City number is for all 5 boroughs though including Staten Island, which is almost suburban. Manhattan is about twice as dense as Barcelona. (Density numbers are always tricky. The figures change a lot depending upon which boundaries you use.)
- vonmoltke 8y ago
  > especially when SO much area of NYC (and all U.S. cities) is designated exclusively for personal automobiles What roads are exclusively for personal automobiles?
  - the_gastropod 8y ago
    Residential on-street parking for starters.