3 ms·

The illegal listings is crony capitalism. Hotels don't want to compete. And tax evasion is a completely different topic, that is not why Airbnbs are shut down.

The illegal listings is crony capitalism. Hotels don't want to compete. And tax evasion is a completely different topic, that is not why Airbnbs are shut down. Every industry has tax problems.

matchbok 8y ago
This has nothing to do with hotels. That's a cop out.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y ago
The illegal listing is not just about hotels, it is about neighbors who don't want to deal with vacationers and parties and disruption.
- visarga 8y ago
  It seems they want to enjoy travelling to other cities while blocking other travellers from coming to their city. Same with Waze traffic being routed on previously less known streets.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    No, they just want travelers to sleep in places designated for travelers. This wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't a real problem - a well-behaved group of transients is near-unnoticeable in a neighbourhood and by definition doesn't disturb anybody. Another problem is that the proliferation of this practice seems to be disturbing the already tense situation on the housing market. Meeting an odd couple from the other side of the world is fun. Realizing that you can't find affordable flat to buy in a city because a significant portion of it is scooped up for renting and short-term leases - that drives up societal discontent.
    - jimmaswell 8y ago
      Why is this crowd suddenly all for restrictive zoning when it comes to AirBnB, yet zoning is evil NIMBYism otherwise?
      - TeMPOraL 8y ago
        Being for AirBnB not driving illegal behaviour != being in favour of zoning. Those two concerns are orthogonal. Empathizing with other people's legitimate issues doesn't imply being pro-zoning either.
        jimmaswell 8y ago
        It seemed like you were in favor of corralling travelers into designated zones and took an issue with residential areas being used for short term leases.
dontbenebby 8y ago
It sounds like they're pushing back because if there's a list of taxes paid (with specific addresses), then municipalities may harass owners, even if they're complying with local laws[1]. There's also the meta level issue that holding site operators responsible for the actions of their users is a very slippery slope. Anything that chips away at the communications decency act could have terrible effects for the internet as we know it[2]. For example, as it currently stands if I were to libelously claim that Paul Graham has a meth lab in his basement[3], I could be charged with a crime, but not HN. If the CDA were weakened, blog operators could be liable for comments posted on them. I don't think anyone reasonable wants that. I think SF's law did a good job balancing things - hosts need to be licensed by the city (the app lists their license #) and can IIRC only lease 90 days out of the year. I looked at a recent receipt for a stay, and they even collected taxes. [1] https://www.eff.org/mention/making-civil-liberties-case-airbnb https://www.eff.org/mention/making-civil-liberties-case-airb... [2] https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Airbnb-HomeAway-would-police-rentals-under-7306756.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Airbnb-HomeAway... [3] To be clear this is a hyperbolic example, and I have no reason to think PaulG has anything illegal in his basement :)

The illegal listings is crony capitalism. Hotels don't want to compete. And tax evasion is a completely different topic, that is not why Airbnbs are shut down. Every industry has tax problems.

matchbok 8y ago

This has nothing to do with hotels. That's a cop out.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y ago

The illegal listing is not just about hotels, it is about neighbors who don't want to deal with vacationers and parties and disruption.

visarga 8y ago
It seems they want to enjoy travelling to other cities while blocking other travellers from coming to their city. Same with Waze traffic being routed on previously less known streets.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  No, they just want travelers to sleep in places designated for travelers. This wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't a real problem - a well-behaved group of transients is near-unnoticeable in a neighbourhood and by definition doesn't disturb anybody. Another problem is that the proliferation of this practice seems to be disturbing the already tense situation on the housing market. Meeting an odd couple from the other side of the world is fun. Realizing that you can't find affordable flat to buy in a city because a significant portion of it is scooped up for renting and short-term leases - that drives up societal discontent.
  - jimmaswell 8y ago
    Why is this crowd suddenly all for restrictive zoning when it comes to AirBnB, yet zoning is evil NIMBYism otherwise?
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago
      Being for AirBnB not driving illegal behaviour != being in favour of zoning. Those two concerns are orthogonal. Empathizing with other people's legitimate issues doesn't imply being pro-zoning either.
      - jimmaswell 8y ago
        It seemed like you were in favor of corralling travelers into designated zones and took an issue with residential areas being used for short term leases.

dontbenebby 8y ago

It sounds like they're pushing back because if there's a list of taxes paid (with specific addresses), then municipalities may harass owners, even if they're complying with local laws[1]. There's also the meta level issue that holding site operators responsible for the actions of their users is a very slippery slope. Anything that chips away at the communications decency act could have terrible effects for the internet as we know it[2]. For example, as it currently stands if I were to libelously claim that Paul Graham has a meth lab in his basement[3], I could be charged with a crime, but not HN. If the CDA were weakened, blog operators could be liable for comments posted on them. I don't think anyone reasonable wants that. I think SF's law did a good job balancing things - hosts need to be licensed by the city (the app lists their license #) and can IIRC only lease 90 days out of the year. I looked at a recent receipt for a stay, and they even collected taxes. [1] https://www.eff.org/mention/making-civil-liberties-case-airbnb https://www.eff.org/mention/making-civil-liberties-case-airb... [2] https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Airbnb-HomeAway-would-police-rentals-under-7306756.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Airbnb-HomeAway... [3] To be clear this is a hyperbolic example, and I have no reason to think PaulG has anything illegal in his basement :)