6 ms·

"Yet the world is doing remarkably well overall, and has not suffered any of the oft-threatened giant digital catastrophes." Totalitarian states manipulating t

"Yet the world is doing remarkably well overall, and has not suffered any of the oft-threatened giant digital catastrophes." Totalitarian states manipulating the political processes of democratic states for their own gain is a giant digital catastrophe.

irundebian 8y ago
It's not considerable higher that in the decades before without much digitization.
markkanof 8y ago
If you are talking about the idea of Russia interfering in U.S. elections, this doesn't seem to have any thing to do with cybersecurity. The only at all credible allegations are that they used Facebook within the bounds of how Facebook is supposed to be used (when it comes to security).
- wefarrell 8y ago
  The hacking of Podesta's emails were absolutely a cybersecurity issue. Spamming facebook and other social media sites with fake accounts is absolutely a cybersecurity issue - in the case of Facebook using a fake account is an unauthorized use of their platform. There was a large social component to it, as is the case with most large cybersecurity breaches.
  - vuln 8y ago
    Podesta was phished, not hacked. Big difference between phished and a 0day or an unpatched vulnerability. Can’t patch humans.
    - dredmorbius 8y ago
      Google's delivery, authentication, compromise-detection, PEP management, and content encryption policies and capabilities directly contributed to the success of this attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politically_exposed_person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politically_exposed_person https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7qya12/information_security_peps_podesta_who_are_you/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7qya12/informa...
      - vuln 8y ago
        Or just a "typo" https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/27/politics/russia-dnc-hacking-csr/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/27/politics/russia-dnc-hacking-c... https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/13/13940514/dnc-email-hack-typo-john-podesta-clinton-russia https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/13/13940514/dnc-email-hack-... https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/310234-typo-may-have-caused-podesta-email-hack https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/310234-typo-may-hav...
        dredmorbius 8y ago
        Which wouldn't have mattered with the other protections in place.
- CaptainZapp 8y ago
  The stolen emails from the Clinton campaign, leaked piecmeal, and arguably part of foreign propaganda efforts had a hell of a lot do with cybersecurity.
  - freshm087 8y ago
    Hacked emails is certainly a cybersec thing, but the fact that backstage politics secrets sometimes become public is nothing new, and not necessary bad for democracy.
    - wefarrell 8y ago
      When a totalitarian adversary does it to aid their preferred candidate it's absolutely terrible for democracy.
      - freshm087 8y ago
        Sorry, I hear "when it's against my preferred candidate it's absolutely horrible". Transparency, and informed decisions are usually claimed to be good for democracy. Hacked emails may play for this, even if done for another reason. Democratic elections are always go with dirt-digging, and spills, and it is essential part of the process even if someone doesn't like it.
        wefarrell 8y ago
        In most cases dirt digging isn't usually a serious problem. When a totalitarian adversary does it to aid their preferred candidate it is.
freshm087 8y ago
External influences is nothing new, and is part of politics for as long as masses opinion matters. If democracy would not able to work with it, it wouldn't exist.
SilasX 8y ago
But that's not an issue of cybersecurity, which is something like "Alice does not want Bob to access system X she owns, Alice follows standard procedure to secure it, Bob accesses X anyway." In the threat model you've described, advertising and social media services were explicitly granting the agents access; they didn't circumvent the cybersecurity layer. Edit: Maybe you can count it as social engineering, but that would only apply if e.g. Facebook is trying to enforce a policy of "No Russian election/political ad buys", but they don't seem to have a problem doing that once they decide to.
- wefarrell 8y ago
  Facebook's official policy is to only allow one authentic account per person.
  - SilasX 8y ago
    Still seems a stretch to lump that under cybersecurity.
    - wefarrell 8y ago
      Unauthorized use of any digital platform is explicitly within the realm of cybersecurity. That fact notwithstanding, the hacking of Podesta's emails is absolutely a cybersecurity issue.
      - SilasX 8y ago
        >Unauthorized use of any digital platform is explicitly within the realm of cybersecurity Then mugging me of my smartphone is cybersecurity, and the boundary ceases to exclude anything, and we might as well just drop the "cyber" prefix.
        wefarrell 8y ago
        Mugging you of your smartphone alone wouldn’t be a cybersecurity issue. Using it without your permission would be.

irundebian 8y ago

It's not considerable higher that in the decades before without much digitization.

markkanof 8y ago

If you are talking about the idea of Russia interfering in U.S. elections, this doesn't seem to have any thing to do with cybersecurity. The only at all credible allegations are that they used Facebook within the bounds of how Facebook is supposed to be used (when it comes to security).

wefarrell 8y ago
The hacking of Podesta's emails were absolutely a cybersecurity issue. Spamming facebook and other social media sites with fake accounts is absolutely a cybersecurity issue - in the case of Facebook using a fake account is an unauthorized use of their platform. There was a large social component to it, as is the case with most large cybersecurity breaches.
- vuln 8y ago
  Podesta was phished, not hacked. Big difference between phished and a 0day or an unpatched vulnerability. Can’t patch humans.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    Google's delivery, authentication, compromise-detection, PEP management, and content encryption policies and capabilities directly contributed to the success of this attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politically_exposed_person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politically_exposed_person https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7qya12/information_security_peps_podesta_who_are_you/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7qya12/informa...
    - vuln 8y ago
      Or just a "typo" https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/27/politics/russia-dnc-hacking-csr/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/27/politics/russia-dnc-hacking-c... https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/13/13940514/dnc-email-hack-typo-john-podesta-clinton-russia https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/13/13940514/dnc-email-hack-... https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/310234-typo-may-have-caused-podesta-email-hack https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/310234-typo-may-hav...
      - dredmorbius 8y ago
        Which wouldn't have mattered with the other protections in place.
CaptainZapp 8y ago
The stolen emails from the Clinton campaign, leaked piecmeal, and arguably part of foreign propaganda efforts had a hell of a lot do with cybersecurity.
- freshm087 8y ago
  Hacked emails is certainly a cybersec thing, but the fact that backstage politics secrets sometimes become public is nothing new, and not necessary bad for democracy.
  - wefarrell 8y ago
    When a totalitarian adversary does it to aid their preferred candidate it's absolutely terrible for democracy.
    - freshm087 8y ago
      Sorry, I hear "when it's against my preferred candidate it's absolutely horrible". Transparency, and informed decisions are usually claimed to be good for democracy. Hacked emails may play for this, even if done for another reason. Democratic elections are always go with dirt-digging, and spills, and it is essential part of the process even if someone doesn't like it.
      - wefarrell 8y ago
        In most cases dirt digging isn't usually a serious problem. When a totalitarian adversary does it to aid their preferred candidate it is.

freshm087 8y ago

External influences is nothing new, and is part of politics for as long as masses opinion matters. If democracy would not able to work with it, it wouldn't exist.

SilasX 8y ago

But that's not an issue of cybersecurity, which is something like "Alice does not want Bob to access system X she owns, Alice follows standard procedure to secure it, Bob accesses X anyway." In the threat model you've described, advertising and social media services were explicitly granting the agents access; they didn't circumvent the cybersecurity layer. Edit: Maybe you can count it as social engineering, but that would only apply if e.g. Facebook is trying to enforce a policy of "No Russian election/political ad buys", but they don't seem to have a problem doing that once they decide to.

wefarrell 8y ago
Facebook's official policy is to only allow one authentic account per person.
- SilasX 8y ago
  Still seems a stretch to lump that under cybersecurity.
  - wefarrell 8y ago
    Unauthorized use of any digital platform is explicitly within the realm of cybersecurity. That fact notwithstanding, the hacking of Podesta's emails is absolutely a cybersecurity issue.
    - SilasX 8y ago
      >Unauthorized use of any digital platform is explicitly within the realm of cybersecurity Then mugging me of my smartphone is cybersecurity, and the boundary ceases to exclude anything, and we might as well just drop the "cyber" prefix.
      - wefarrell 8y ago
        Mugging you of your smartphone alone wouldn’t be a cybersecurity issue. Using it without your permission would be.