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My wife and I recently had our first child, and we decided we didn't want her to have any kind of social media presence until she was old enough to make that de

My wife and I recently had our first child, and we decided we didn't want her to have any kind of social media presence until she was old enough to make that decision for herself. It's been a challenge ensuring friends and family don't post stuff about our daughter, but reading this reinforces that we're making the right choice.

1zee 8y ago
What is "old enough"?
- MattBearman 8y ago
  We haven't decided that yet (she's only 3 months old at this point). We'll discuss that when/if she decides she wants to be on social media. Hopefully by then there will have been more studies into the effects of social media use with age, and we can make an informed decision :)
- delecti 8y ago
  Obviously it's subjective and up to them, but if they're in the US, 13 seems to be a reasonable benchmark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Pr...
- austincheney 8y ago
  114. A better question is at what age do social media participants stop being toxic or easily offended?
  - t0astbread 8y ago
    Some never
- ninju 8y ago
  I would hope it would be closer to 16 yrs of age
- cflewis 8y ago
  I have done the same thing as OP. The kid doesn't get photos put online outside Google Photos, and those are only shared with family members who know not to leak them. For me, old enough is "when you can demonstrate meaningful understanding of the negatives of the platform". "I want to because my friends use it" isn't enough. "I want to but I'd only use [Snapchat-style ephemeral data] so people can't make fun of me with it" is much closer, as is "I want to because I want to talk to my friends but I wouldn't connect with people who aren't my friends". So it's not a hard number, but my guess is that it's going to be about 13, like others have said.
jedimastert 8y ago
We did the same thing. We told my inlaws that before she was born and my mother-in-law still posted my daughter's birth announcement before my wife was done with skin to skin. She would not stop taking pictures in the post-partum room.
- MattBearman 8y ago
  Aw that sucks! We had a similar thing. Told everyone during the pregnancy that we didn't want it on facebook, and MIL still posted information on Facebook. We deliberately didn't tell anyone when my wife went into labour, as she didn't want anyone else there.
ravenstine 8y ago
One of the reasons I left Facebook was the amount of web presence people give their young children. It's not that I don't think children are adorable. I'm talking about parents who have a baby and then spend every day posting photos about every event in the child's life. I know 3 people in my relatively small circle who have been posting on behalf of their children for years. Maybe I'm a freak, but I think there's something seriously messed up with having one's life broadcasted to strangers. I'm not saying that it's bad to include updates about/with one's children occasionally in social media posts, but I think it's wrong to make a child's entire life an open book without their consent. Worst of all, it's not really about the child. I mean, it kind of is, but it's mostly for the parents to feel good.
- MattBearman 8y ago
  I totally agree, I deactivated my Facebook a few years back. We use WhatsApp to share pictures and information about our baby with close friends and family, just hope the end-to-end encryption is legit. One big concern for me was the idea of Facebook having a 'shadow profile' of our daughter without our consent.
  - RoadieRoller 8y ago
    The point is, if you are sharing it with close family/friends, and their presence in the photo could prompt them to share it in their facebook. So in some way, it will end up in someone's profile with a tag to you/your kids name, unless you explicitly say every time "don't share".
- beamatronic 8y ago
  To your point about strangers: There are two basic ways to use social media: public to the world and friends only. I feel like the first is a non starter, do you feel the same about the second use-case?
  - _jal 8y ago
    Your description of the second omits participants: FB and their hundreds of "partners". Of course their participation is much different than what you're thinking of, but those unknown databases should be part of the calculation.
citilife 8y ago
We did a similar thing, ask that no photos be posted, no discussions, etc. from family members Obviously, there are still "leaks", but clearly discussing it with people and explaining why usually is enough. Although we get some strange looks, I explain what I personally can do with just a small dataset, and then people respect it. I think it's probably the single largest threat to our society, because it's essentially normalizing zero-privacy. I personally think it should be a choice that can be made at 14 or something. I'm a libertarian, but I often think laws to protect children are relatively good. As such, I think a law protecting a child's privacy is probably something we as a society should consider. Implementation would be quite difficult, however. The problem has more to do with the future adult. My work related to ML has me horrified to think of the future. With enough data about a child (and enough of a training dataset), it should be possible to predict outcomes (political leaning, wealth, death, etc.)
LeonM 8y ago
I applaud you. My sister had a baby last year, and she's been posting and sharing photos and videos non-stop. Recently she asked me if I knew if hackers could break into baby monitor because she was worried some hacker may spy on her sleeping baby... I had a good laugh first, then I felt sad for her.
- ianlevesque 8y ago
  > I had a good laugh first, then I felt sad for her It's an issue of consent. She's voluntarily sharing specific selected photos & videos with her social peers, a hacked baby monitor would be a violation. The glib dismissal here helps nobody.
  - Jaruzel 8y ago
    > It's an issue of consent. Her baby hasn't given consent. Believe you me, there's loads of 'Invasion of Privacy' lawsuits from kids to their parents coming down the pipe over the next decade.
    - balfirevic 8y ago
      That's true, but it is a separate (and valid) issue. The distinction between sharing specific photos and hacked baby monitor, as pointed out by ianlevesque, is still important and it's wrong to casually dismiss it.
    - dcole2929 8y ago
      I just saw a clip from one of those scared straight shows last night and this was my first thought. These kids are going to hit 18 and sue the everlasting hell out of anyone who had anything to do with this. Leaving aside the questionable effectiveness of those programs to begin with, all I could think was how can a parent allow their kid to be put on tv and abused in such a vulnerable position no matter how bad they are. I think it's the same for these kids who have been posted on social media by their parents. Kids get their lives ruined by this type of stuff. The internet has a long memory, and these children are in no way capable of consenting. Yeah it's not Cash Me Outside girl bad but you're still potentially putting still maturing children on display to be potentially mocked by random internet mobs. Forever.
ajacksified 8y ago
I never thought about it until yesterday, when my daughter asked that we take a "selfie" together; I thought it was a great picture and put it on Instagram. Later she wanted to browse through my pictures and asked me, shocked: "You put that on Instagram?!" I had never really considered it to be an issue (I have a private account, pictures only get shared with friends family), but thinking more on it- she really should be asked to consent to share it, even if my account is locked down. I've been telling her (for as long as it's relevant) that anything on the internet stays there forever, and we've had talks about privacy when they want to install some cheap knock-off F2P mobile game that wants access to your entire phone, but this is another aspect I need to consider.
- flukus 8y ago
  A few years ago now I had a slightly distant cousin ask if she could take photos of my nephew and I thought needing to ask was some ridiculous paranoia about pedophiles or something, she's family, of course she can take photos. Now you've made me wonder if "can I take a photo" carries an implicit "and share them around the world" with it. In hindsight as someone constantly being forced into photos it seems to.
Angostura 8y ago
Similarly, my daughters are now 15 and 13, we never put any photos of them on social media, we used private DropBox or iCloud albums to share stuff with family.
rhn_mk1 8y ago
I would make a broader argument: don't post things about people without their permission. The friend you're quoting for saying something interesting didn't necessarily want to make a public statement. The random person caught in your picture might not want to share their location with Facebook. I'm glad that you are thinking starting from your daughter, and I hope that the pattern continues.
stuaxo 8y ago
I've done exactly the same, with the exception of google photos, but I'll probably pull that by the time she gets a bit further into toddlerhood. While you can't prevent everything, I've only asked people to take pics down a couple of times and they've been understanding.
EvanAnderson 8y ago
We've got a very similar scenario. Our daughter is nearly 6 now. She participated in some community events that ended up with her attributed photo on a local newspaper website (which I'm okay with-- we knew the "danger" when she wanted to participate in the events). Aside from that we've managed to keep attributed photos of her off the Internet. A couple of family members have posted photos of her but have been kind enough to avoid attribution. (I do wonder how facial recognition will deal with ex post facto attribution of photos of children, given how our faces change as we age. Up to about age 4 my daughter was nearly indistinguishable from one of her cousins in photos-- a testament to the power of my wife's family's genetics, I guess...)
softawre 8y ago
I made the same decision. My daughter is now 5, no social media pictures of her. I do share pictures of her to a few family members over Google Photos, and I keep track of her life in a private email account that I will give to her when she turns 13.

1zee 8y ago

What is "old enough"?

MattBearman 8y ago
We haven't decided that yet (she's only 3 months old at this point). We'll discuss that when/if she decides she wants to be on social media. Hopefully by then there will have been more studies into the effects of social media use with age, and we can make an informed decision :)
delecti 8y ago
Obviously it's subjective and up to them, but if they're in the US, 13 seems to be a reasonable benchmark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Pr...
austincheney 8y ago
114. A better question is at what age do social media participants stop being toxic or easily offended?
- t0astbread 8y ago
  Some never
ninju 8y ago
I would hope it would be closer to 16 yrs of age
cflewis 8y ago
I have done the same thing as OP. The kid doesn't get photos put online outside Google Photos, and those are only shared with family members who know not to leak them. For me, old enough is "when you can demonstrate meaningful understanding of the negatives of the platform". "I want to because my friends use it" isn't enough. "I want to but I'd only use [Snapchat-style ephemeral data] so people can't make fun of me with it" is much closer, as is "I want to because I want to talk to my friends but I wouldn't connect with people who aren't my friends". So it's not a hard number, but my guess is that it's going to be about 13, like others have said.

jedimastert 8y ago

We did the same thing. We told my inlaws that before she was born and my mother-in-law still posted my daughter's birth announcement before my wife was done with skin to skin. She would not stop taking pictures in the post-partum room.

MattBearman 8y ago
Aw that sucks! We had a similar thing. Told everyone during the pregnancy that we didn't want it on facebook, and MIL still posted information on Facebook. We deliberately didn't tell anyone when my wife went into labour, as she didn't want anyone else there.

ravenstine 8y ago

One of the reasons I left Facebook was the amount of web presence people give their young children. It's not that I don't think children are adorable. I'm talking about parents who have a baby and then spend every day posting photos about every event in the child's life. I know 3 people in my relatively small circle who have been posting on behalf of their children for years. Maybe I'm a freak, but I think there's something seriously messed up with having one's life broadcasted to strangers. I'm not saying that it's bad to include updates about/with one's children occasionally in social media posts, but I think it's wrong to make a child's entire life an open book without their consent. Worst of all, it's not really about the child. I mean, it kind of is, but it's mostly for the parents to feel good.

MattBearman 8y ago
I totally agree, I deactivated my Facebook a few years back. We use WhatsApp to share pictures and information about our baby with close friends and family, just hope the end-to-end encryption is legit. One big concern for me was the idea of Facebook having a 'shadow profile' of our daughter without our consent.
- RoadieRoller 8y ago
  The point is, if you are sharing it with close family/friends, and their presence in the photo could prompt them to share it in their facebook. So in some way, it will end up in someone's profile with a tag to you/your kids name, unless you explicitly say every time "don't share".
beamatronic 8y ago
To your point about strangers: There are two basic ways to use social media: public to the world and friends only. I feel like the first is a non starter, do you feel the same about the second use-case?
- _jal 8y ago
  Your description of the second omits participants: FB and their hundreds of "partners". Of course their participation is much different than what you're thinking of, but those unknown databases should be part of the calculation.

citilife 8y ago

We did a similar thing, ask that no photos be posted, no discussions, etc. from family members Obviously, there are still "leaks", but clearly discussing it with people and explaining why usually is enough. Although we get some strange looks, I explain what I personally can do with just a small dataset, and then people respect it. I think it's probably the single largest threat to our society, because it's essentially normalizing zero-privacy. I personally think it should be a choice that can be made at 14 or something. I'm a libertarian, but I often think laws to protect children are relatively good. As such, I think a law protecting a child's privacy is probably something we as a society should consider. Implementation would be quite difficult, however. The problem has more to do with the future adult. My work related to ML has me horrified to think of the future. With enough data about a child (and enough of a training dataset), it should be possible to predict outcomes (political leaning, wealth, death, etc.)

LeonM 8y ago

I applaud you. My sister had a baby last year, and she's been posting and sharing photos and videos non-stop. Recently she asked me if I knew if hackers could break into baby monitor because she was worried some hacker may spy on her sleeping baby... I had a good laugh first, then I felt sad for her.

ianlevesque 8y ago
> I had a good laugh first, then I felt sad for her It's an issue of consent. She's voluntarily sharing specific selected photos & videos with her social peers, a hacked baby monitor would be a violation. The glib dismissal here helps nobody.
- Jaruzel 8y ago
  > It's an issue of consent. Her baby hasn't given consent. Believe you me, there's loads of 'Invasion of Privacy' lawsuits from kids to their parents coming down the pipe over the next decade.
  - balfirevic 8y ago
    That's true, but it is a separate (and valid) issue. The distinction between sharing specific photos and hacked baby monitor, as pointed out by ianlevesque, is still important and it's wrong to casually dismiss it.
  - dcole2929 8y ago
    I just saw a clip from one of those scared straight shows last night and this was my first thought. These kids are going to hit 18 and sue the everlasting hell out of anyone who had anything to do with this. Leaving aside the questionable effectiveness of those programs to begin with, all I could think was how can a parent allow their kid to be put on tv and abused in such a vulnerable position no matter how bad they are. I think it's the same for these kids who have been posted on social media by their parents. Kids get their lives ruined by this type of stuff. The internet has a long memory, and these children are in no way capable of consenting. Yeah it's not Cash Me Outside girl bad but you're still potentially putting still maturing children on display to be potentially mocked by random internet mobs. Forever.

ajacksified 8y ago

I never thought about it until yesterday, when my daughter asked that we take a "selfie" together; I thought it was a great picture and put it on Instagram. Later she wanted to browse through my pictures and asked me, shocked: "You put that on Instagram?!" I had never really considered it to be an issue (I have a private account, pictures only get shared with friends family), but thinking more on it- she really should be asked to consent to share it, even if my account is locked down. I've been telling her (for as long as it's relevant) that anything on the internet stays there forever, and we've had talks about privacy when they want to install some cheap knock-off F2P mobile game that wants access to your entire phone, but this is another aspect I need to consider.

flukus 8y ago
A few years ago now I had a slightly distant cousin ask if she could take photos of my nephew and I thought needing to ask was some ridiculous paranoia about pedophiles or something, she's family, of course she can take photos. Now you've made me wonder if "can I take a photo" carries an implicit "and share them around the world" with it. In hindsight as someone constantly being forced into photos it seems to.

Angostura 8y ago

Similarly, my daughters are now 15 and 13, we never put any photos of them on social media, we used private DropBox or iCloud albums to share stuff with family.

rhn_mk1 8y ago

I would make a broader argument: don't post things about people without their permission. The friend you're quoting for saying something interesting didn't necessarily want to make a public statement. The random person caught in your picture might not want to share their location with Facebook. I'm glad that you are thinking starting from your daughter, and I hope that the pattern continues.

stuaxo 8y ago

I've done exactly the same, with the exception of google photos, but I'll probably pull that by the time she gets a bit further into toddlerhood. While you can't prevent everything, I've only asked people to take pics down a couple of times and they've been understanding.

EvanAnderson 8y ago

We've got a very similar scenario. Our daughter is nearly 6 now. She participated in some community events that ended up with her attributed photo on a local newspaper website (which I'm okay with-- we knew the "danger" when she wanted to participate in the events). Aside from that we've managed to keep attributed photos of her off the Internet. A couple of family members have posted photos of her but have been kind enough to avoid attribution. (I do wonder how facial recognition will deal with ex post facto attribution of photos of children, given how our faces change as we age. Up to about age 4 my daughter was nearly indistinguishable from one of her cousins in photos-- a testament to the power of my wife's family's genetics, I guess...)

softawre 8y ago

I made the same decision. My daughter is now 5, no social media pictures of her. I do share pictures of her to a few family members over Google Photos, and I keep track of her life in a private email account that I will give to her when she turns 13.