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Some ideas from this should be rewritten into a more readable/ADHD-friendly piece to warn highly-functioning-Aspergers people and those with somewhat similar "l

by nnq 8y ago

Some ideas from this should be rewritten into a more readable/ADHD-friendly piece to warn highly-functioning-Aspergers people and those with somewhat similar "less sociable" personalities against growing fond of any ultra-right-wing/(techno)fascist and neo-natzy ideologies that may seem seem appealing! Some of them, and even some who are normally sociable but more ultra-individualistic, or more order-loving, can be attracted to order and clear patterns, and right-wing-ish groups tend to disguise themselves as being "ordered and rational" despite their hate-spreading and homicidal agendas... Any heavy-right-wing and/or ultra-nationalistic or xenophobic ideology is at its core anti-individualistic anti-"people who develop their minds along their own tracks separate from society". There is a huge difference between people who are less-integrated / less-affective / less-social / Gemüt-poor, and people with hateful, resentful and genocidal-friendly attitudes. "Gemüt-rich people" simply have a higher inertia by being anchored to their societies so they may seem "better" because it's harder to make them do horrible things when they are in a healthy society. But as in physics, inertia works both ways, "Gemüt-rich" or more conformist people will keep doing horrible things (and competing + cooperating to be more horrible) once they start doing them! "Badly socially integrated", asocial, highly-functional-autism or "Gemüt-poor" individuals can also function as a society's immune system that helps it fight back and recover from malignant ideologies like nazism and extremist-communism!

rezeroed 8y ago
Anyone care to comment why the drive-by downvote trolls have been at the above comment?
- tokai 8y ago
  Don't call others trolls for downvoting.
  - rezeroed 8y ago
    Not calling downvoters trolls, calling driveby, non-commenting downvoters trolls. And I stand by it.
tapland 8y ago
I've met extremely few people with autism who are far right. One or two on a larger online autism community. Socialism seems very popular and it's also pretty controlled.
zeveb 8y ago
> Any heavy-right-wing and/or ultra-nationalistic or xenophobic ideology is at its core anti-individualistic anti-"people who develop their minds along their own tracks separate from society". Any totalitarian ideology is at its core anti-individualistic. Individualism is about the freedom to opt out, to say, 'no thanks, I'd like to do things my own way.'
DoreenMichele 8y ago
People are products of their social environments. Outcomes are hardly determined solely by a single personality trait, like how "sociable" or "not sociable" (or whatever you want to call this) they are.
- nnq 8y ago
  > People are products of their social environments This is both a useless platitude and deeply offensive to state... we may be the product of an environment, but we also produce/reshape the environment on our turn, that's the important part of the loop, and the part we can act upon! Focusing on the other is both counter-productive and depression-inducing. We're humans because we create / build / forge / destroy / reshape our environment, otherwise we could just as well imagine we're vegetables growing in a "social garden" fed by "societal night soil fertilizer" - such an attitude can only promote apathy and justify not taking responsibility for things! All people have innate characteristics/talents/deficiencies etc., we're not blank slates programmed by "the social environment", it's about understanding how to work with what we get from the gene + "random chaos of the natural environment" lottery...
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    I think there is a failure to communicate somewhere. I'm certainly not suggesting that people are born as blank slates. I'm just suggesting that there is a lot that happens in the years between birth and adulthood that influence outcomes. Whatever stuff we are born with is not some kind of predetermined fate that "we will do/behave X." I've raised two special needs sons. They are late twenties/early thirties. This is a problem space I've thought a lot about. My thoughts on the subject seem to generally not plug into the current public narrative. I'm still trying to figure out how to write effectively about it so it's clear to other people.
    - nnq 8y ago
      Sorry, yes, there's probably a communication issue :) You surely have a lot of valuable things to say. Just don't ever starts with "people are products of their social environments", it can send the totally wrong vibe to many people and make cause the rest of the message be misunderstood. At least reword it somehow. Lots of people are "violently allergic" to this kind of social-determinism style discourse.
stcredzero 8y ago
"Badly socially integrated", asocial, highly-functional-autism or "Gemüt-poor" individuals can also function as a society's immune system that helps it fight back and recover from malignant ideologies like nazism and extremist-communism! It's also called "contrarianism." Contrarianism, engagement, and Free Speech were celebrated when the Left-dominated media was still fighting for dominance, whereas the Right pooh-poohed it. Now, contrarianism, engagement, and Free Speech are the province of the Right. Badly socially integrated "Gemüt-poor" individuals gravitate towards the side that has to resort to rationality and sense. This often causes them to speak truth to power, when others would make the social calculation and keep mum. I think the pendulum is related to the Geeks, Mops, and Sociopaths progression. https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths The side with the rising/peaking social currency/power attracts the mops, then the sociopaths. Many geeks then wind up on the side furthest away from the sociopaths, causing a flip-flop or another swing of the pendulum. (There will always be a concentration of sociopaths on the extreme ends of the political spectrum, as that is the best tactical ground for outrage virality tactics.)

by nnq 8y ago

rezeroed 8y ago

Anyone care to comment why the drive-by downvote trolls have been at the above comment?

tokai 8y ago
Don't call others trolls for downvoting.
- rezeroed 8y ago
  Not calling downvoters trolls, calling driveby, non-commenting downvoters trolls. And I stand by it.

tapland 8y ago

I've met extremely few people with autism who are far right. One or two on a larger online autism community. Socialism seems very popular and it's also pretty controlled.

zeveb 8y ago

> Any heavy-right-wing and/or ultra-nationalistic or xenophobic ideology is at its core anti-individualistic anti-"people who develop their minds along their own tracks separate from society". Any totalitarian ideology is at its core anti-individualistic. Individualism is about the freedom to opt out, to say, 'no thanks, I'd like to do things my own way.'

DoreenMichele 8y ago

People are products of their social environments. Outcomes are hardly determined solely by a single personality trait, like how "sociable" or "not sociable" (or whatever you want to call this) they are.

nnq 8y ago
> People are products of their social environments This is both a useless platitude and deeply offensive to state... we may be the product of an environment, but we also produce/reshape the environment on our turn, that's the important part of the loop, and the part we can act upon! Focusing on the other is both counter-productive and depression-inducing. We're humans because we create / build / forge / destroy / reshape our environment, otherwise we could just as well imagine we're vegetables growing in a "social garden" fed by "societal night soil fertilizer" - such an attitude can only promote apathy and justify not taking responsibility for things! All people have innate characteristics/talents/deficiencies etc., we're not blank slates programmed by "the social environment", it's about understanding how to work with what we get from the gene + "random chaos of the natural environment" lottery...
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  I think there is a failure to communicate somewhere. I'm certainly not suggesting that people are born as blank slates. I'm just suggesting that there is a lot that happens in the years between birth and adulthood that influence outcomes. Whatever stuff we are born with is not some kind of predetermined fate that "we will do/behave X." I've raised two special needs sons. They are late twenties/early thirties. This is a problem space I've thought a lot about. My thoughts on the subject seem to generally not plug into the current public narrative. I'm still trying to figure out how to write effectively about it so it's clear to other people.
  - nnq 8y ago
    Sorry, yes, there's probably a communication issue :) You surely have a lot of valuable things to say. Just don't ever starts with "people are products of their social environments", it can send the totally wrong vibe to many people and make cause the rest of the message be misunderstood. At least reword it somehow. Lots of people are "violently allergic" to this kind of social-determinism style discourse.

stcredzero 8y ago

"Badly socially integrated", asocial, highly-functional-autism or "Gemüt-poor" individuals can also function as a society's immune system that helps it fight back and recover from malignant ideologies like nazism and extremist-communism! It's also called "contrarianism." Contrarianism, engagement, and Free Speech were celebrated when the Left-dominated media was still fighting for dominance, whereas the Right pooh-poohed it. Now, contrarianism, engagement, and Free Speech are the province of the Right. Badly socially integrated "Gemüt-poor" individuals gravitate towards the side that has to resort to rationality and sense. This often causes them to speak truth to power, when others would make the social calculation and keep mum. I think the pendulum is related to the Geeks, Mops, and Sociopaths progression. https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths The side with the rising/peaking social currency/power attracts the mops, then the sociopaths. Many geeks then wind up on the side furthest away from the sociopaths, causing a flip-flop or another swing of the pendulum. (There will always be a concentration of sociopaths on the extreme ends of the political spectrum, as that is the best tactical ground for outrage virality tactics.)