6 ms·

You are assuming that the world is well ordered and that all things will balance like that, but it isn't. People don't see those jobs as options, they aren't ev

You are assuming that the world is well ordered and that all things will balance like that, but it isn't. People don't see those jobs as options, they aren't even aware of the opportunities, and there is social stigma against being in the trades. Even if you make a nice living in the trades, you will take a hit to your social identity, making you less attractive to others. That's how toxic our culture is right now. People don't value good work anymore, they value branding and image. And we are going to collapse because of it.

twblalock 8y ago
> And we are going to collapse because of it. It's not that bad.
- BucketSort 8y ago
  When we are electing the president by the same principle, I assure you that it is even worse than you can imagine. Societal collapse is imminent. Those who are comforted by their station in life always think they are living in a utopia. You are surrounded by fake smiles adorning people forced into subservience. At one time the myth that hard work and dedication would pay off in the end kept people in line, the "american dream" they called it. Now that myth has been tempered by reality, watching the last generation work all their lives with many having little to their names and no security is what looms over the current generation. We know it's a lie. That lie was keeping things together. We are heading into an age of great civil brawling fueled by immense economic pressure caused by corruption on all fronts.
  - eanzenberg 8y ago
    well that escalated quickly
  - unimpressive 8y ago
    Your narrative is not actually evidence (even if I suspect you may in fact be right).
    - TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
      The evidence is in crumbling infrastructure, poor provision of essential social investment, and increasing political and social extremism. Short-term greed turns out to be a ridiculously naive, stupid, and short-sighted way to run an economy.
      - BucketSort 8y ago
        Basically you have to beat people with the truth for people to accept it when it goes against their ill-conceived view of the world.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - sethherr 8y ago
    I agree! Let’s all wear flannel and be slackers! You’re doing a throw back to the nineties comment, right?
    - eanzenberg 8y ago
      Haha, yeah you could pluck that comment out of any decade and find (insane)people saying it.
      - BucketSort 8y ago
        It's also usually true.
baroffoos 8y ago
I assure you that if the job is paying enough people will drop any social stigma against trades jobs right away. I'll pick a paid off nice house over showing off to my friends. Although I'm sure the new house is much easier to show off than an office job. I have talked to people working hard physical labor jobs and they make hardly more than I do as a junior/mid level web dev but they are doing back breaking work 6 days a week.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- godzillabrennus 8y ago
  The national shortage of truck drivers in America does not support your argument. I heard from someone at 160 Driving Academy that you can make six figures with a CDL and the trucking companies will pay you to get one. That's not even as hard on the body as other physical jobs. It is not a well regarded and the community of peers you interact with means that it isn't a very desirable job.
  - speedplane 8y ago
    > I heard from someone at 160 Driving Academy that you can make six figures with a CDL and the trucking companies will pay you to get one. I remember visiting the Daily News (a NYC local newspaper) in the early 2000s and on the tour learned that the unionized delivery guys could make six figures. That was almost 20 years ago. The fact that the same salary as 20 years ago is still possible doesn't really say much.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - slavik81 8y ago
    The guy at the driving academy might not be the most neutral source of information. Is that $100k before or after you buy a semitruck? How much does a truck cost? How often do you see your family?
  - tfehring 8y ago
cylinder 8y ago
Relax. Why do you expect a bunch of escalator mechanics to be on standby, readily available for a once in a generation escalator repair project? That's not how things work.
Nuzzerino 8y ago
I disagree about there being a social stigma about the trades. It might tend to be seen more frequently among certain age groups or geographic locations but I can't recall ever seeing people be thought of that way for having a skilled trades job (I'm in the US). Quite the contrary actually, I think they're seen as very hard working. But I've also never seen very much in the way of recommendations from others in that trade to get into that kind of work. Probably because there are few people to do the recommending. There's certainly no shortage of freshman brogrammers who will preach a career in software development as easy money (they'll change their tune when they see the ugly side of things but that's a different topic of discussion).
- ehnto 8y ago
  It isn't so much a stigma as it is a lack of advocates for trade and an abundance of advocates for white collar work. It would be naive to think there isn't some classism that causes this.

twblalock 8y ago

> And we are going to collapse because of it. It's not that bad.

BucketSort 8y ago
When we are electing the president by the same principle, I assure you that it is even worse than you can imagine. Societal collapse is imminent. Those who are comforted by their station in life always think they are living in a utopia. You are surrounded by fake smiles adorning people forced into subservience. At one time the myth that hard work and dedication would pay off in the end kept people in line, the "american dream" they called it. Now that myth has been tempered by reality, watching the last generation work all their lives with many having little to their names and no security is what looms over the current generation. We know it's a lie. That lie was keeping things together. We are heading into an age of great civil brawling fueled by immense economic pressure caused by corruption on all fronts.
- eanzenberg 8y ago
  well that escalated quickly
- unimpressive 8y ago
  Your narrative is not actually evidence (even if I suspect you may in fact be right).
  - TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
    The evidence is in crumbling infrastructure, poor provision of essential social investment, and increasing political and social extremism. Short-term greed turns out to be a ridiculously naive, stupid, and short-sighted way to run an economy.
    - BucketSort 8y ago
      Basically you have to beat people with the truth for people to accept it when it goes against their ill-conceived view of the world.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- sethherr 8y ago
  I agree! Let’s all wear flannel and be slackers! You’re doing a throw back to the nineties comment, right?
  - eanzenberg 8y ago
    Haha, yeah you could pluck that comment out of any decade and find (insane)people saying it.
    - BucketSort 8y ago
      It's also usually true.

baroffoos 8y ago

I assure you that if the job is paying enough people will drop any social stigma against trades jobs right away. I'll pick a paid off nice house over showing off to my friends. Although I'm sure the new house is much easier to show off than an office job. I have talked to people working hard physical labor jobs and they make hardly more than I do as a junior/mid level web dev but they are doing back breaking work 6 days a week.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
godzillabrennus 8y ago
The national shortage of truck drivers in America does not support your argument. I heard from someone at 160 Driving Academy that you can make six figures with a CDL and the trucking companies will pay you to get one. That's not even as hard on the body as other physical jobs. It is not a well regarded and the community of peers you interact with means that it isn't a very desirable job.
- speedplane 8y ago
  > I heard from someone at 160 Driving Academy that you can make six figures with a CDL and the trucking companies will pay you to get one. I remember visiting the Daily News (a NYC local newspaper) in the early 2000s and on the tour learned that the unionized delivery guys could make six figures. That was almost 20 years ago. The fact that the same salary as 20 years ago is still possible doesn't really say much.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- slavik81 8y ago
  The guy at the driving academy might not be the most neutral source of information. Is that $100k before or after you buy a semitruck? How much does a truck cost? How often do you see your family?
- tfehring 8y ago

cylinder 8y ago

Relax. Why do you expect a bunch of escalator mechanics to be on standby, readily available for a once in a generation escalator repair project? That's not how things work.

Nuzzerino 8y ago

I disagree about there being a social stigma about the trades. It might tend to be seen more frequently among certain age groups or geographic locations but I can't recall ever seeing people be thought of that way for having a skilled trades job (I'm in the US). Quite the contrary actually, I think they're seen as very hard working. But I've also never seen very much in the way of recommendations from others in that trade to get into that kind of work. Probably because there are few people to do the recommending. There's certainly no shortage of freshman brogrammers who will preach a career in software development as easy money (they'll change their tune when they see the ugly side of things but that's a different topic of discussion).

ehnto 8y ago
It isn't so much a stigma as it is a lack of advocates for trade and an abundance of advocates for white collar work. It would be naive to think there isn't some classism that causes this.