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The trio of global trade treaties, TISA, TTIP and TPP had small writing permitting larger corporations to ignore or even rewrite international laws should said

The trio of global trade treaties, TISA, TTIP and TPP had small writing permitting larger corporations to ignore or even rewrite international laws should said laws promote regulations. They also had a clause, as Assange himself wrote about, where if a government was doing something which one of these corporations could profit from, then the government was no longer permitted to pursue, lest they be sanctioned and embargoed by every other participating nation-state. I've been saying all along, the deals are dead in name only. We've passed that sci-fi trope where corporations now wield more authority than governments.

Escolte 8y ago
And it all has a name: Corporatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism We're actively transfering national sovereignty in chunks to organizations that can by design, as their sole purpose is to make money, turn against the interests of the people of a country in a switch.
- MultusSalus 8y ago
  I don’t think that Wikipedia article is about the same topic.
- arvinsim 8y ago
  I think what you mean is Corporatocracy or Plutocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy
deogeo 8y ago
> where if a government was doing something which one of these corporations could profit from, then the government was no longer permitted to pursue, I knew those 'trade' deals were full of the most awful stuff, but didn't know about this - I'd be grateful for some kind of source.
- nilskidoo 8y ago
  This is as good a starting point as any: https://wikileaks.org/ttip/ https://wikileaks.org/ttip/
  - deogeo 8y ago
    Could you narrow it down for me? There's some shady looking text in the State-owned Enterprise section, but the legalese is difficult to pierce.
_bxg1 8y ago
Whenever I see stuff like this, all I can do is choose to believe that concentrated power will always eventually crumble under its own fragility. That's how it's worked so far. AI may change that equation one day, but one has to be able to sleep at night.
- devoply 8y ago
  No it hasn't concentration of power has led to violence and revolution... at the very least to organized labor. Maybe it makes systems with certain structures fragile, like a despot but we don't have systems like these are are inherently fragile. Delusional to think that things magically fix themselves. AI consolidates power and makes revolt even more difficult once it's realized as something completely automated. China might collapse under its own weight as it does not have robust systems and the West is looking to hurt its economy to further cause instability, but corporatism elsewhere continues to grow stronger.
  - _bxg1 8y ago
    > revolution...organized labor Precisely. The masses have always been able to, eventually, usurp the few. The thing that's made democratic nations like the U.S. so successful is that they harness the power of the many. A diverse system is much more fault-tolerant than a centralized one. The minds and wills of a free populace, competing but also cooperating, have always been stronger than the minds of a minority which controls a populace. What's best for people has traditionally been aligned with what's effective, in this respect. Empires always fall. But, yes, AI could change that. We'll see how it plays out.
    - meruru 8y ago
      It's not AI that's going to change that, it's mass surveillance and ubiquitous proprietary software. AI may contribute to it, but it's the fact that we've given away control over our life and our society that's the real issue.
      - _bxg1 8y ago
HumanDrivenDev 8y ago
We've passed that sci-fi trope where corporations now wield more authority than governments. I have a better relationship with corporations more than governments. A corporation has never harassed me at an airport when trying to leave. If I don't like MacDonalds I can... stop eating at MacDonalds. If I don't like the services the state provides I have to physically remove myself.
- _bxg1 8y ago
  If you don't like Google and Apple you can't stop using both of them. If you don't like your local ISP you probably can't stop using it. The free market only gives consumers power over corporations when those consumers - through democracy - keep them from amassing too much power via regulatory bodies. Some people act like the government is the threat, but in a democracy the government is the only thing that truly gives you any power.
  - lamarpye 8y ago
    I don't agree. Which is more likely for you to end up in jail? Not buying an iPhone or stop paying your taxes?
    - nilskidoo 8y ago
      I was once served eviction papers by Louisville police over going a full winter without gas in my apartment. It wasn't that I neglected a bill, but that thanks to other obligations I knew I couldn't afford it, so I never opened an account. The landlords understood until the badges showed up, and then wouldn't return my deposit. So I was punished, half a week in jail followed by a couple of homeless months, for not being a customer. It absolutely happens. And debtors prisons are still a thing: https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/ending-modern-day-debtors-prisons https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/...
      - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
        I don’t understand why this sort of thing doesn’t permit US citizens to seek asylum as political refugees in slightly less fckdup countries.
frozenport 8y ago
TPP was an anti-China policy
kmlx 8y ago
"as Assange himself wrote about" I don't believe a word of this KGB/FSB agent. "We've passed that sci-fi trope where corporations now wield more authority than governments." Considering how awful governments are, it just seems natural. At least with a corporation I can buy stock, I can attend shareholder meetings. With governments I have to wait 4 years or longer to choose between crap and more crap. That's why I think more and more people prefer Google over the government of the day. Without fixing democracy's major faults, more corps will gain more and more power.
- nilskidoo 8y ago
  WL hosts over half a million docs pertaining to the Russian government, and Assange's mentor Gavin MacFadyen was banned from entering Russia under any circumstances for the last 20 or 30 years of his life, but sure. And...the OP concerns US firms building China's Orwellian state. Literally contributing to "how awful governments are".
  - fifnir 8y ago
    I had a (admittedly brief look) on WL's site and couldn't find anything with regards to Russia's gov., Would you please show me what you mean ?
- _bxg1 8y ago
  Stocks and shareholder meetings are artificial constructs defined by governments. Antitrust, trade secrets, prosecution of insider trading, consumer protection. Without a government you have none of these things; without these things, the free market reverts to feudal lords battling it out by any means necessary.
  - fifnir 8y ago
    Well put, it's really shocking to read some of those wild corporation-worshiping views on HN.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Escolte 8y ago

And it all has a name: Corporatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism We're actively transfering national sovereignty in chunks to organizations that can by design, as their sole purpose is to make money, turn against the interests of the people of a country in a switch.

MultusSalus 8y ago
I don’t think that Wikipedia article is about the same topic.
arvinsim 8y ago
I think what you mean is Corporatocracy or Plutocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy

deogeo 8y ago

> where if a government was doing something which one of these corporations could profit from, then the government was no longer permitted to pursue, I knew those 'trade' deals were full of the most awful stuff, but didn't know about this - I'd be grateful for some kind of source.

nilskidoo 8y ago
This is as good a starting point as any: https://wikileaks.org/ttip/ https://wikileaks.org/ttip/
- deogeo 8y ago
  Could you narrow it down for me? There's some shady looking text in the State-owned Enterprise section, but the legalese is difficult to pierce.

_bxg1 8y ago

Whenever I see stuff like this, all I can do is choose to believe that concentrated power will always eventually crumble under its own fragility. That's how it's worked so far. AI may change that equation one day, but one has to be able to sleep at night.

devoply 8y ago
No it hasn't concentration of power has led to violence and revolution... at the very least to organized labor. Maybe it makes systems with certain structures fragile, like a despot but we don't have systems like these are are inherently fragile. Delusional to think that things magically fix themselves. AI consolidates power and makes revolt even more difficult once it's realized as something completely automated. China might collapse under its own weight as it does not have robust systems and the West is looking to hurt its economy to further cause instability, but corporatism elsewhere continues to grow stronger.
- _bxg1 8y ago
  > revolution...organized labor Precisely. The masses have always been able to, eventually, usurp the few. The thing that's made democratic nations like the U.S. so successful is that they harness the power of the many. A diverse system is much more fault-tolerant than a centralized one. The minds and wills of a free populace, competing but also cooperating, have always been stronger than the minds of a minority which controls a populace. What's best for people has traditionally been aligned with what's effective, in this respect. Empires always fall. But, yes, AI could change that. We'll see how it plays out.
  - meruru 8y ago
    It's not AI that's going to change that, it's mass surveillance and ubiquitous proprietary software. AI may contribute to it, but it's the fact that we've given away control over our life and our society that's the real issue.
    - _bxg1 8y ago

HumanDrivenDev 8y ago

We've passed that sci-fi trope where corporations now wield more authority than governments. I have a better relationship with corporations more than governments. A corporation has never harassed me at an airport when trying to leave. If I don't like MacDonalds I can... stop eating at MacDonalds. If I don't like the services the state provides I have to physically remove myself.

_bxg1 8y ago
If you don't like Google and Apple you can't stop using both of them. If you don't like your local ISP you probably can't stop using it. The free market only gives consumers power over corporations when those consumers - through democracy - keep them from amassing too much power via regulatory bodies. Some people act like the government is the threat, but in a democracy the government is the only thing that truly gives you any power.
- lamarpye 8y ago
  I don't agree. Which is more likely for you to end up in jail? Not buying an iPhone or stop paying your taxes?
  - nilskidoo 8y ago
    I was once served eviction papers by Louisville police over going a full winter without gas in my apartment. It wasn't that I neglected a bill, but that thanks to other obligations I knew I couldn't afford it, so I never opened an account. The landlords understood until the badges showed up, and then wouldn't return my deposit. So I was punished, half a week in jail followed by a couple of homeless months, for not being a customer. It absolutely happens. And debtors prisons are still a thing: https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/ending-modern-day-debtors-prisons https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/...
    - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
      I don’t understand why this sort of thing doesn’t permit US citizens to seek asylum as political refugees in slightly less fckdup countries.

frozenport 8y ago

TPP was an anti-China policy

kmlx 8y ago

"as Assange himself wrote about" I don't believe a word of this KGB/FSB agent. "We've passed that sci-fi trope where corporations now wield more authority than governments." Considering how awful governments are, it just seems natural. At least with a corporation I can buy stock, I can attend shareholder meetings. With governments I have to wait 4 years or longer to choose between crap and more crap. That's why I think more and more people prefer Google over the government of the day. Without fixing democracy's major faults, more corps will gain more and more power.

nilskidoo 8y ago
WL hosts over half a million docs pertaining to the Russian government, and Assange's mentor Gavin MacFadyen was banned from entering Russia under any circumstances for the last 20 or 30 years of his life, but sure. And...the OP concerns US firms building China's Orwellian state. Literally contributing to "how awful governments are".
- fifnir 8y ago
  I had a (admittedly brief look) on WL's site and couldn't find anything with regards to Russia's gov., Would you please show me what you mean ?
_bxg1 8y ago
Stocks and shareholder meetings are artificial constructs defined by governments. Antitrust, trade secrets, prosecution of insider trading, consumer protection. Without a government you have none of these things; without these things, the free market reverts to feudal lords battling it out by any means necessary.
- fifnir 8y ago
  Well put, it's really shocking to read some of those wild corporation-worshiping views on HN.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]