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My sister worked at a charter school. Because of previous labor violations teachers were not allowed to show up before class started (they could only be there f

My sister worked at a charter school. Because of previous labor violations teachers were not allowed to show up before class started (they could only be there for the official class hours). They also were not allowed to stay late after class. My sister thought this was ridiculous, how was she supposed to setup her classroom and answer questions afterwards? Unfortunately her boss warned her that coming early and staying late was not allowed. Once unions start adding work rules like this you'll see a push to disable after-hours emails, banning weekend work, etc. So while the trope of the lazy union worker is deeply flawed, there are some problems for workers who want to go above and beyond (and while most non-tech workers don't get extra compensation for unpaid overtime, tech workers who go above and beyond actually are rewarded with equity)

JauntyHatAngle 8y ago
Would a potential solution to this be to negotiate with the Unions to raise pay but increase hours worked to include the before/after class setup times? I don't know the particulars, but these sort of disputes can often arise due to a perceived slight on pay increases or similar, which leads to things going a bit batty.
thelasthuman 8y ago
You can go above and beyond during designated work hours. To allow work outside of these hours is a race to the bottom in a rat race to see who can no-life it the hardest for the least money. If you can't make yourself stand out with the same amount of hours as your coworkers, then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional.
- vonholstein 8y ago
  Its unreasonable to say that individual exceptionalism is all that matters for success. There needs to be a way for hard work yo matter as well. Perhaps have both union and non-union shops and let employees vote with their feet.
- castlecrasher2 8y ago
  >then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional lol and maybe you're just a cynical asshole
  - dang 8y ago
    No personal attacks, please, regardless of whether some other comment was being an asshole. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- tdhoot 8y ago
  > If you can't make yourself stand out with the same amount of hours as your coworkers, then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional. Or perhaps different people prioritize different things and who are you to judge or say otherwise?
  - jniedrauer 8y ago
    This is a tragedy of the commons type situation. When your workaholism infringes on the lives of your coworkers, then your coworkers do have a right to say something.
    - tdhoot 8y ago
      It doesn't infringe on anything unless you believe everyone must make the same choices you've made. If your employer is making you work long hours because someone else is, that's on your employer, not the employee who is voluntarily working long hours. Nothing is stopping you as an employee from putting in more time if you want to or leaving if you don't, but depriving others of an opportunity to choose their own priorities is not a right anyone has.
- dang 8y ago
  Please don't cross into being a jerk in HN comments. It only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
flukus 8y ago
> Because of previous labor violations teachers were not allowed to show up before class started So the school was expecting teachers to come in early to setup, not paying them for those hours and punishing those that didn't. This isn't a problem created by labor unions, it is a problem created by exploitative companies. And when the company decided how they would address the issue they decided that pre-class preparation wasn't worth paying for.
rexpop 8y ago
This seems like a punishment inflicted by management, not a concession negotiated by the union.

JauntyHatAngle 8y ago

Would a potential solution to this be to negotiate with the Unions to raise pay but increase hours worked to include the before/after class setup times? I don't know the particulars, but these sort of disputes can often arise due to a perceived slight on pay increases or similar, which leads to things going a bit batty.

thelasthuman 8y ago

You can go above and beyond during designated work hours. To allow work outside of these hours is a race to the bottom in a rat race to see who can no-life it the hardest for the least money. If you can't make yourself stand out with the same amount of hours as your coworkers, then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional.

vonholstein 8y ago
Its unreasonable to say that individual exceptionalism is all that matters for success. There needs to be a way for hard work yo matter as well. Perhaps have both union and non-union shops and let employees vote with their feet.
castlecrasher2 8y ago
>then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional lol and maybe you're just a cynical asshole
- dang 8y ago
  No personal attacks, please, regardless of whether some other comment was being an asshole. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
tdhoot 8y ago
> If you can't make yourself stand out with the same amount of hours as your coworkers, then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional. Or perhaps different people prioritize different things and who are you to judge or say otherwise?
- jniedrauer 8y ago
  This is a tragedy of the commons type situation. When your workaholism infringes on the lives of your coworkers, then your coworkers do have a right to say something.
  - tdhoot 8y ago
    It doesn't infringe on anything unless you believe everyone must make the same choices you've made. If your employer is making you work long hours because someone else is, that's on your employer, not the employee who is voluntarily working long hours. Nothing is stopping you as an employee from putting in more time if you want to or leaving if you don't, but depriving others of an opportunity to choose their own priorities is not a right anyone has.
dang 8y ago
Please don't cross into being a jerk in HN comments. It only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

flukus 8y ago

> Because of previous labor violations teachers were not allowed to show up before class started So the school was expecting teachers to come in early to setup, not paying them for those hours and punishing those that didn't. This isn't a problem created by labor unions, it is a problem created by exploitative companies. And when the company decided how they would address the issue they decided that pre-class preparation wasn't worth paying for.

rexpop 8y ago

This seems like a punishment inflicted by management, not a concession negotiated by the union.