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As a EU citizen, it always surprise me how the popular retoric about unions is to associate it with lazyness. I think is just undermining of what union actually

As a EU citizen, it always surprise me how the popular retoric about unions is to associate it with lazyness. I think is just undermining of what union actually really are. I personally found this as a first step toward a perception shift about tech from which we can all benefit. Unions for instance can help fight this constant non extra paid "after-hours" working culture that force you to do all-nighters and all this kind of crazy shits just because the industry is seen as a bunch of nerds that are that passionate about programming that stay long hours just for the sake of love/passion for the job itself.

scarmig 8y ago
Europeans and union members are so lazy, with their 40 hour work weeks and paid time off and extra compensation for being on-call.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
jdavis703 8y ago
My sister worked at a charter school. Because of previous labor violations teachers were not allowed to show up before class started (they could only be there for the official class hours). They also were not allowed to stay late after class. My sister thought this was ridiculous, how was she supposed to setup her classroom and answer questions afterwards? Unfortunately her boss warned her that coming early and staying late was not allowed. Once unions start adding work rules like this you'll see a push to disable after-hours emails, banning weekend work, etc. So while the trope of the lazy union worker is deeply flawed, there are some problems for workers who want to go above and beyond (and while most non-tech workers don't get extra compensation for unpaid overtime, tech workers who go above and beyond actually are rewarded with equity)
- JauntyHatAngle 8y ago
  Would a potential solution to this be to negotiate with the Unions to raise pay but increase hours worked to include the before/after class setup times? I don't know the particulars, but these sort of disputes can often arise due to a perceived slight on pay increases or similar, which leads to things going a bit batty.
- thelasthuman 8y ago
  You can go above and beyond during designated work hours. To allow work outside of these hours is a race to the bottom in a rat race to see who can no-life it the hardest for the least money. If you can't make yourself stand out with the same amount of hours as your coworkers, then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional.
  - vonholstein 8y ago
    Its unreasonable to say that individual exceptionalism is all that matters for success. There needs to be a way for hard work yo matter as well. Perhaps have both union and non-union shops and let employees vote with their feet.
  - castlecrasher2 8y ago
    >then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional lol and maybe you're just a cynical asshole
    - dang 8y ago
      No personal attacks, please, regardless of whether some other comment was being an asshole. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - tdhoot 8y ago
    > If you can't make yourself stand out with the same amount of hours as your coworkers, then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional. Or perhaps different people prioritize different things and who are you to judge or say otherwise?
    - jniedrauer 8y ago
      This is a tragedy of the commons type situation. When your workaholism infringes on the lives of your coworkers, then your coworkers do have a right to say something.
- flukus 8y ago
  > Because of previous labor violations teachers were not allowed to show up before class started So the school was expecting teachers to come in early to setup, not paying them for those hours and punishing those that didn't. This isn't a problem created by labor unions, it is a problem created by exploitative companies. And when the company decided how they would address the issue they decided that pre-class preparation wasn't worth paying for.
- rexpop 8y ago
  This seems like a punishment inflicted by management, not a concession negotiated by the union.

scarmig 8y ago

Europeans and union members are so lazy, with their 40 hour work weeks and paid time off and extra compensation for being on-call.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

jdavis703 8y ago

My sister worked at a charter school. Because of previous labor violations teachers were not allowed to show up before class started (they could only be there for the official class hours). They also were not allowed to stay late after class. My sister thought this was ridiculous, how was she supposed to setup her classroom and answer questions afterwards? Unfortunately her boss warned her that coming early and staying late was not allowed. Once unions start adding work rules like this you'll see a push to disable after-hours emails, banning weekend work, etc. So while the trope of the lazy union worker is deeply flawed, there are some problems for workers who want to go above and beyond (and while most non-tech workers don't get extra compensation for unpaid overtime, tech workers who go above and beyond actually are rewarded with equity)

JauntyHatAngle 8y ago
Would a potential solution to this be to negotiate with the Unions to raise pay but increase hours worked to include the before/after class setup times? I don't know the particulars, but these sort of disputes can often arise due to a perceived slight on pay increases or similar, which leads to things going a bit batty.
thelasthuman 8y ago
You can go above and beyond during designated work hours. To allow work outside of these hours is a race to the bottom in a rat race to see who can no-life it the hardest for the least money. If you can't make yourself stand out with the same amount of hours as your coworkers, then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional.
- vonholstein 8y ago
  Its unreasonable to say that individual exceptionalism is all that matters for success. There needs to be a way for hard work yo matter as well. Perhaps have both union and non-union shops and let employees vote with their feet.
- castlecrasher2 8y ago
  >then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional lol and maybe you're just a cynical asshole
  - dang 8y ago
    No personal attacks, please, regardless of whether some other comment was being an asshole. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- tdhoot 8y ago
  > If you can't make yourself stand out with the same amount of hours as your coworkers, then maybe you should come to terms with the fact that you just aren't exceptional. Or perhaps different people prioritize different things and who are you to judge or say otherwise?
  - jniedrauer 8y ago
    This is a tragedy of the commons type situation. When your workaholism infringes on the lives of your coworkers, then your coworkers do have a right to say something.
flukus 8y ago
> Because of previous labor violations teachers were not allowed to show up before class started So the school was expecting teachers to come in early to setup, not paying them for those hours and punishing those that didn't. This isn't a problem created by labor unions, it is a problem created by exploitative companies. And when the company decided how they would address the issue they decided that pre-class preparation wasn't worth paying for.
rexpop 8y ago
This seems like a punishment inflicted by management, not a concession negotiated by the union.