3 ms·

This has already happened in a way. Unity uses a ton of C# for scripting. While C# is somewhat nicer to work with, this low pause GC makes java a compelling opt

This has already happened in a way. Unity uses a ton of C# for scripting. While C# is somewhat nicer to work with, this low pause GC makes java a compelling option for moving much more logic into the VM language

_bxg1 8y ago
Yeah, I do wonder how Unity deals with the GC. Maybe there's an algorithm like this one, maybe the engine's core systems (physics and graphics) are written in native code. C# as a language does tend to be nicer than Java, but its VM doesn't have as rich a family of languages.
- SomeHacker44 8y ago
  My limited understanding is that high end Unity devs code their stuff not to make garbage. Unity has a very nice system for profiling that sort of thing. Also, CLR has F#, which I like much better than Scala (and, no type erasure in CLR), Clojure which is ... just like Clojure on JVM, and C#, which as a Java dev since 1.1 I have come to prefer as a language even as I remain JVM ecosystem preferring on the server side. JVM has ABCL, a neat Common Lisp, and now Graal/Truffle which is super interesting. If not for Clojure though (and maybe Kotlin) I would probably give up on the JVM. Oracle does not help. Just my opinion.
  - spricket 8y ago
    Totally agree. C# and kin are far better designed. It's the lively Java ecosystem that keeps me around as well
    - DaiPlusPlus 8y ago
      Less “lively Java ecosystem” - more “slow-moving Enterprise Java environments”.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    Is Clojure on CLR actively maintained?
    - weavejester 8y ago
      Yes, it's one of the officially supported platforms (albeit the least used one).
  - _bxg1 8y ago
    I did just remember that C# has value-type data structures (which last I checked, Java didn't) which probably helps a lot. Most objects can probably be kept on the stack, and objects on the stack don't need to be garbage collected.
ResidentSleeper 8y ago
Keep in mind that C# has support for non-primitive value types (structs) which means you can avoid garbage collection entirely if you're careful (not all that difficult in my experience). Additionally, Unity has just introduced a specialized low-latency garbage collector in their beta build. Overall, from where I'm standing, Java doesn't look very appealing for game development.
- spricket 8y ago
  Lack of value types sucks so yes I agree. On the other hand this new GC might be fast enough that it just doesn't matter if you create garbage for most purposes

_bxg1 8y ago

Yeah, I do wonder how Unity deals with the GC. Maybe there's an algorithm like this one, maybe the engine's core systems (physics and graphics) are written in native code. C# as a language does tend to be nicer than Java, but its VM doesn't have as rich a family of languages.

SomeHacker44 8y ago
My limited understanding is that high end Unity devs code their stuff not to make garbage. Unity has a very nice system for profiling that sort of thing. Also, CLR has F#, which I like much better than Scala (and, no type erasure in CLR), Clojure which is ... just like Clojure on JVM, and C#, which as a Java dev since 1.1 I have come to prefer as a language even as I remain JVM ecosystem preferring on the server side. JVM has ABCL, a neat Common Lisp, and now Graal/Truffle which is super interesting. If not for Clojure though (and maybe Kotlin) I would probably give up on the JVM. Oracle does not help. Just my opinion.
- spricket 8y ago
  Totally agree. C# and kin are far better designed. It's the lively Java ecosystem that keeps me around as well
  - DaiPlusPlus 8y ago
    Less “lively Java ecosystem” - more “slow-moving Enterprise Java environments”.
- int_19h 8y ago
  Is Clojure on CLR actively maintained?
  - weavejester 8y ago
    Yes, it's one of the officially supported platforms (albeit the least used one).
- _bxg1 8y ago
  I did just remember that C# has value-type data structures (which last I checked, Java didn't) which probably helps a lot. Most objects can probably be kept on the stack, and objects on the stack don't need to be garbage collected.

ResidentSleeper 8y ago

Keep in mind that C# has support for non-primitive value types (structs) which means you can avoid garbage collection entirely if you're careful (not all that difficult in my experience). Additionally, Unity has just introduced a specialized low-latency garbage collector in their beta build. Overall, from where I'm standing, Java doesn't look very appealing for game development.

spricket 8y ago
Lack of value types sucks so yes I agree. On the other hand this new GC might be fast enough that it just doesn't matter if you create garbage for most purposes