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You haven't described a private union. You've described a co-op - a solution to an entirely different problem - how to deploy capital and labor in an egalitaria

You haven't described a private union. You've described a co-op - a solution to an entirely different problem - how to deploy capital and labor in an egalitarian way. Unions exist to counter an existing adversarial and coercive economic relationship with counter-coercion. It's kind of like saying that instead of using tanks to fight a war you should use really persuasive arguments because then you don't have to use "coercion".

ace_of_spades 8y ago
Sure that was the whole point, to broaden the discussion beyond tending the symptoms and trying to get at the causes. An interesting idea could be to use a union or similar vehicle to start a co-op. Or start to strive for more democratic practices in companies. I actually like the comparisons to consulting companies in the sibling comments which seem to be an attempt at doing something like the outlined, however, with more of a traditional paint on top and probably more vulnerable to coercion in the long run.
- crdoconnor 8y ago
  Co-ops don't address the causes of coercive economic relations though. If they did they'd be much more common - Walmart and John Lewis both exist but they simply can't compete effectively in the same market. The only way to counter a Walmart is with a union - and a really aggressive one, too.
  - ace_of_spades 8y ago
    If you look at the video I posted at least one professor seems to think otherwise and I kind of find his arguments at least worthy to consider. Corporations will by nature have place an emphasis on pleasing owners, which in the case of coops are the workers. So, it doesn’t dispense with competition in general but aligns interests better with workers which should have a profound effect on “coercive economic relations”. If you just mean that coops just cannot really compete, I would say that’s a myth. Look at Mondragon for example [1] or some large German coops. They also run successful competitors to walmart at leasr in europe. I think that one reason that they are just not as common is a general need to raise capital quickly, general availability of capital and a lack of education. But you are right that none of that is likely to counter an existing monopoly with access to huge capital baring some kind of legislative changes. There is certainly a place for unions. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

ace_of_spades 8y ago

Sure that was the whole point, to broaden the discussion beyond tending the symptoms and trying to get at the causes. An interesting idea could be to use a union or similar vehicle to start a co-op. Or start to strive for more democratic practices in companies. I actually like the comparisons to consulting companies in the sibling comments which seem to be an attempt at doing something like the outlined, however, with more of a traditional paint on top and probably more vulnerable to coercion in the long run.

crdoconnor 8y ago
Co-ops don't address the causes of coercive economic relations though. If they did they'd be much more common - Walmart and John Lewis both exist but they simply can't compete effectively in the same market. The only way to counter a Walmart is with a union - and a really aggressive one, too.
- ace_of_spades 8y ago
  If you look at the video I posted at least one professor seems to think otherwise and I kind of find his arguments at least worthy to consider. Corporations will by nature have place an emphasis on pleasing owners, which in the case of coops are the workers. So, it doesn’t dispense with competition in general but aligns interests better with workers which should have a profound effect on “coercive economic relations”. If you just mean that coops just cannot really compete, I would say that’s a myth. Look at Mondragon for example [1] or some large German coops. They also run successful competitors to walmart at leasr in europe. I think that one reason that they are just not as common is a general need to raise capital quickly, general availability of capital and a lack of education. But you are right that none of that is likely to counter an existing monopoly with access to huge capital baring some kind of legislative changes. There is certainly a place for unions. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation