4 ms·

i doubt patreon has a grip on creators. There just aren't enough alternatives, but the bigger it gets the more likely it is a bank/crypto company/credit card co

i doubt patreon has a grip on creators. There just aren't enough alternatives, but the bigger it gets the more likely it is a bank/crypto company/credit card company will create a solution for microtransactions that eats all of their lunch. They exist because they benefit from the current unfortunate situation in finance that microtransactions are not worth it due to cost. They are one change in regulation away from being rendered obsolete. They don't have any network effect: their creators instantly take their audience with them wherever they go.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
I'm not that familiar with Patreon, only that some of the YouTube channels I watch solicit donations on it. Do the creators on Patreon get access to an email list of their "patreons"? Obviously they could blast out a new payment site on their YouTube channel, but I'm just curious what an exfiltration would look like. I do think you're probably right that if Patreon oversteps and upsets their creators, those people will move to another service (and I'm sure someone will be waiting to offer the same thing cheaper). I don't see why even Kickstarter or Gofundme couldn't offer this very service without much work. It looks like YouTube already is experimenting with paid channel subscriptions.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  It looks like YouTube already is experimenting with paid channel subscriptions. I think their cut is many times that of Patreon's, though.
- rcthompson 8y ago
  As a creator on Patreon, you can always make posts that are sent to all of your patrons. So you can just make a post on Patreon saying "Hey, I'm shutting this down and moving to [other platform] instead" and all your patrons will see it. Whether they follow you to the new platform is up to them, of course. I've seen at least one creator that I support do exactly this, moving to Ko-Fi. I followed them, but I don't think Ko-Fi publicly shows the total monthly donations a person receives, so I have no idea what the attrition rate was on the migration.
- Kye 8y ago
  Kickstarter had Drip, but they kept it invite-only two years too long, then shut down new invites and gave it to XOXO. No one who's talking knows what they're doing with it.
stcredzero 8y ago
They don't have any network effect: their creators instantly take their audience with them wherever they go. Not entirely true. Moving, as of now, involves shedding a significant fraction of your users. More people are on Patreon, because more people have been on Patreon, and they are the company more potential subscribers are familiar with. That said, it's not a very strong network effect. Patreon seems keen to do exactly what it takes to start bleeding subscribers and creators to other platforms, for solid economic and first principles reasons.
- adrianratnapala 8y ago
  You are right that they have some network effect, but are also right that it's not zero. Recently the one "creator" that I funded on the platform moved to allowing direct bank transfers. I was glad to make the change: my bank is a platform that I really am already familiar with, way more than Patreon. And the creator did not have to belong to the same bank as me.
  - londons_explore 8y ago
    That creator should watch out... Taking direct bank transfers from random strangers is a good way to get your accounts closed for fraud and banned from all banks. If just one of your supporters pays from a hacked bank account, or with North Korean/Iran etc money, your account will be marked as the receiver of stolen funds. Your bank will close the account, and they put your name on a register of people never to deal with again. They publish that register to other banks, so you'll never be able to bank anywhere with the same identity documents. There is no route of appeal, and they can't even give you info on the supposed bad transaction(s) because that would reveal how their fraud detection works. "I'm sorry sir, we can't open you a checking account, and we aren't allowed to tell you why". Taking money by credit/debit card protects you from that it seems - they are designed for taking money from strangers.
    - obrisintor 8y ago
      I wonder if the Iranian government could send $1 to everyone who publicly displayed their bank information in order to cause banks to ban a large number of random people.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago

I'm not that familiar with Patreon, only that some of the YouTube channels I watch solicit donations on it. Do the creators on Patreon get access to an email list of their "patreons"? Obviously they could blast out a new payment site on their YouTube channel, but I'm just curious what an exfiltration would look like. I do think you're probably right that if Patreon oversteps and upsets their creators, those people will move to another service (and I'm sure someone will be waiting to offer the same thing cheaper). I don't see why even Kickstarter or Gofundme couldn't offer this very service without much work. It looks like YouTube already is experimenting with paid channel subscriptions.

stcredzero 8y ago
It looks like YouTube already is experimenting with paid channel subscriptions. I think their cut is many times that of Patreon's, though.
rcthompson 8y ago
As a creator on Patreon, you can always make posts that are sent to all of your patrons. So you can just make a post on Patreon saying "Hey, I'm shutting this down and moving to [other platform] instead" and all your patrons will see it. Whether they follow you to the new platform is up to them, of course. I've seen at least one creator that I support do exactly this, moving to Ko-Fi. I followed them, but I don't think Ko-Fi publicly shows the total monthly donations a person receives, so I have no idea what the attrition rate was on the migration.
Kye 8y ago
Kickstarter had Drip, but they kept it invite-only two years too long, then shut down new invites and gave it to XOXO. No one who's talking knows what they're doing with it.

stcredzero 8y ago

They don't have any network effect: their creators instantly take their audience with them wherever they go. Not entirely true. Moving, as of now, involves shedding a significant fraction of your users. More people are on Patreon, because more people have been on Patreon, and they are the company more potential subscribers are familiar with. That said, it's not a very strong network effect. Patreon seems keen to do exactly what it takes to start bleeding subscribers and creators to other platforms, for solid economic and first principles reasons.

adrianratnapala 8y ago
You are right that they have some network effect, but are also right that it's not zero. Recently the one "creator" that I funded on the platform moved to allowing direct bank transfers. I was glad to make the change: my bank is a platform that I really am already familiar with, way more than Patreon. And the creator did not have to belong to the same bank as me.
- londons_explore 8y ago
  That creator should watch out... Taking direct bank transfers from random strangers is a good way to get your accounts closed for fraud and banned from all banks. If just one of your supporters pays from a hacked bank account, or with North Korean/Iran etc money, your account will be marked as the receiver of stolen funds. Your bank will close the account, and they put your name on a register of people never to deal with again. They publish that register to other banks, so you'll never be able to bank anywhere with the same identity documents. There is no route of appeal, and they can't even give you info on the supposed bad transaction(s) because that would reveal how their fraud detection works. "I'm sorry sir, we can't open you a checking account, and we aren't allowed to tell you why". Taking money by credit/debit card protects you from that it seems - they are designed for taking money from strangers.
  - obrisintor 8y ago
    I wonder if the Iranian government could send $1 to everyone who publicly displayed their bank information in order to cause banks to ban a large number of random people.