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It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things ar

by drugme 8y ago

It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? Maybe because the employer... made things "adversarial" by creating unhealthy / untenable / inadequately compensated working conditions in the first place? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". If that's your concern, then the solution -- the only solution -- is to provide attractive (or at least reasonable) enough working conditions so that your employees don't even think of unionizing. As if they're just doing it because they're bored and have some unconscious desire for more complication in their lives or something. The implicit message behind your critique is that employees who seek to unionize must be basically kind of stupid for not seeing the downsides to going the unionization route. When in reality... it's just a tradeoff. And a tradeoff they see little resource but to take, in view of the unreasonable working conditions (and essentially, if-you-don't-like-it-then-go-fuck-yourselves) negotiating stances taken by their employers.

tomohawk 8y ago
There are lots of reasons people may think unionizing is a good idea. Maybe they think the grass will be greener. Maybe they think it will get the man off their back. Maybe they think they're engaged in some sort of class warfare, and this is their duty. Maybe they are people who focus on what they don't have instead of what they do have. All I know from friends/family is all a union does is put another group of people over you to tell you what to do. Only, these guys don't really have anything to do with the business. Their interests are not aligned with the business or even with yours. As time goes by, they just use their position to further their own other interests and power. These are the lessons we already learned about unions, and why they're so unpopular these days.
- jakelazaroff 8y ago
  > All I know from friends/family is all a union does is put another group of people over you to tell you what to do… Their interests are not aligned with the business or even with yours. Your employer is already a group of people over you who tell you what to do, whose interests are definitely not aligned with yours. At least your union is ostensibly on your side; your employer is incentivized to wring as much out of you as they can, for as little as they can.
- Frondo 8y ago
  > All I know from friends/family is all a union does is put another group of people over you to tell you what to do This is an unfair characterization of what unions are. They're not a second set of bosses; they're democratic organizations, no more, no less. What you get out of them is largely up to you and your interest in being involved. Saying they're "over you" and "tell you what to do" reminds me of people who complain about politics but don't vote (let alone be politically active). For people unwilling even to show up to the discussion and use what little power is literally given to them, it's unsurprising that they'll get more than the minimum from such organizations.

by drugme 8y ago

tomohawk 8y ago

There are lots of reasons people may think unionizing is a good idea. Maybe they think the grass will be greener. Maybe they think it will get the man off their back. Maybe they think they're engaged in some sort of class warfare, and this is their duty. Maybe they are people who focus on what they don't have instead of what they do have. All I know from friends/family is all a union does is put another group of people over you to tell you what to do. Only, these guys don't really have anything to do with the business. Their interests are not aligned with the business or even with yours. As time goes by, they just use their position to further their own other interests and power. These are the lessons we already learned about unions, and why they're so unpopular these days.

jakelazaroff 8y ago
> All I know from friends/family is all a union does is put another group of people over you to tell you what to do… Their interests are not aligned with the business or even with yours. Your employer is already a group of people over you who tell you what to do, whose interests are definitely not aligned with yours. At least your union is ostensibly on your side; your employer is incentivized to wring as much out of you as they can, for as little as they can.
Frondo 8y ago
> All I know from friends/family is all a union does is put another group of people over you to tell you what to do This is an unfair characterization of what unions are. They're not a second set of bosses; they're democratic organizations, no more, no less. What you get out of them is largely up to you and your interest in being involved. Saying they're "over you" and "tell you what to do" reminds me of people who complain about politics but don't vote (let alone be politically active). For people unwilling even to show up to the discussion and use what little power is literally given to them, it's unsurprising that they'll get more than the minimum from such organizations.