3 ms·

> If they can ban this video, could they also ban videos of police or military abuses of power produced by a private citizen? In theory no. The censor operates

by erentz 8y ago

> If they can ban this video, could they also ban videos of police or military abuses of power produced by a private citizen? In theory no. The censor operates independently under strict legislation and decisions can (I believe based on memory of previous instances) be challenged in court. So such an example as above wouldn't be censored because it wouldn't be injurious to the public good. Quite the opposite, such a video would be for the public good. Banning it would require some kind of authoritarian capture of both the censor's office and the the judicial system to enforce. Certainly if somehow NZ became an authoritarian state then the censor could be used to those ends, but by that point authoritarian states don't exactly care about law or process or political interference when it comes to censorship anyway.

tathougies 8y ago
> The censor operates independently under strict legislation and decisions can (I believe based on memory of previous instances) be challenged in court Meaningless political theater. This is like trying to divorce the king in a country with lese majeste. If you cannot know what's in the video, how could you possibly ask for it in court, without admitting that you illegally watched the video? The best word to describe New Zealand right now is Kafka-esque.
- erentz 8y ago
  > you illegally watched the video You're confusing having seen objectionable material with distributing that objectionable material. It's the distribution that is an offense.
  - Taniwha 8y ago
    well did you make a copy of the film when you watched it? (remember the law includes having a copy of the film, not just distribution or publishing)
  - tathougies 8y ago
    Distinction without a difference. Only a lawyer will stand a chance to argue in front of a court competently. Thus, they or their client or someone will have had to have distributed the video to them in order to successfully argue the case. Like I said, kafka-esque.
  - frio 8y ago
    I think there's a real cultural clash between NZ and the US style of politics that is readily visible in this thread. Our censors have most visibly banned a few videogames in their time, but as an office, I think most kiwis accept the role they have in society and are happy for them to do their job. The political fearmongering about Government overreach that the US seems to have hasn't fully infected us yet; we still kinda like our Government and aren't particularly afraid of them. I hope that stays true, it seems like a happier and more relaxed way to live. That said, possession, distribution and (I believe!) consumption of objectionable material are all considered an offence. The cops and the courts exercise discretion here.
    - tathougies 8y ago
      > The political fearmongering about Government overreach that the US seems to have hasn't fully infected us yet; we still kinda like our Government and aren't particularly afraid of them. I hope that stays true, it seems like a happier and more relaxed way to live. Nah. The most relaxed way to live is knowing your government won't arrest you because you watched a video before it was declared illegal.
    - erentz 8y ago
      > That said, possession, distribution and (I believe!) consumption of objectionable ... cops and the courts exercise discretion here. There likely is discretion involved and the law probably needs some updating. The DIA website on this [1] makes it clear their concern is really around collection and "trade" of objectionable material. Not random people accidently viewing it (or even curious rubberneckers going for a look). It was much easier in a time when the law was largely written, and obtaining objectionable material meant having an actual physical copy. You most likely knew you were getting an objectionable DVD or book because you had to go to a back alley to buy it off a guy. The law couldn't anticipate people opening Facebook to find an autoplaying video of a massacre, hence why you're right wrt discretion that's probably in use now. [1] https://www.dia.govt.nz/Censorship-and-the-Internet https://www.dia.govt.nz/Censorship-and-the-Internet
    - sampo 8y ago
      > it seems like a happier and more relaxed way to live. This is striking below the belt and I apologize, but: I am sure a Chinese citizen would say the same. In public. When their government is monitoring.
  - sb057 8y ago
    https://www.dia.govt.nz/Censorship-Objectionable-and-Restricted-Material https://www.dia.govt.nz/Censorship-Objectionable-and-Restric... >Anybody found “knowingly” in possession of objectionable material can receive a maximum of 10 years imprisonment. >Every time a person downloads objectionable material onto their screen, there is the potential for a possession offence having been committed.
    - erentz 8y ago
      >> Internal Affairs investigates and sometimes prosecutes people who deliberately collect objectionable material and find ways to distribute it to other people via the Internet. Occasionally, the nature of the Internet can lead to somebody viewing objectionable material by accident. >> If this happens to you, just leave the site immediately. You shouldn't knowingly go seeking it out this video. Just like you shouldn't knowingly go seeking out child porn. If you do, as I'm sure a lot have, just make sure you don't knowingly keep a copy on your computer. And by knowingly don't be a smartass about it and try to hide it thinking you can pretend you didn't know. Seriously just don't keep a copy and clear your cache.

by erentz 8y ago

tathougies 8y ago

> The censor operates independently under strict legislation and decisions can (I believe based on memory of previous instances) be challenged in court Meaningless political theater. This is like trying to divorce the king in a country with lese majeste. If you cannot know what's in the video, how could you possibly ask for it in court, without admitting that you illegally watched the video? The best word to describe New Zealand right now is Kafka-esque.

erentz 8y ago
> you illegally watched the video You're confusing having seen objectionable material with distributing that objectionable material. It's the distribution that is an offense.
- Taniwha 8y ago
  well did you make a copy of the film when you watched it? (remember the law includes having a copy of the film, not just distribution or publishing)
- tathougies 8y ago
  Distinction without a difference. Only a lawyer will stand a chance to argue in front of a court competently. Thus, they or their client or someone will have had to have distributed the video to them in order to successfully argue the case. Like I said, kafka-esque.
- frio 8y ago
  I think there's a real cultural clash between NZ and the US style of politics that is readily visible in this thread. Our censors have most visibly banned a few videogames in their time, but as an office, I think most kiwis accept the role they have in society and are happy for them to do their job. The political fearmongering about Government overreach that the US seems to have hasn't fully infected us yet; we still kinda like our Government and aren't particularly afraid of them. I hope that stays true, it seems like a happier and more relaxed way to live. That said, possession, distribution and (I believe!) consumption of objectionable material are all considered an offence. The cops and the courts exercise discretion here.
  - tathougies 8y ago
    > The political fearmongering about Government overreach that the US seems to have hasn't fully infected us yet; we still kinda like our Government and aren't particularly afraid of them. I hope that stays true, it seems like a happier and more relaxed way to live. Nah. The most relaxed way to live is knowing your government won't arrest you because you watched a video before it was declared illegal.
  - erentz 8y ago
    > That said, possession, distribution and (I believe!) consumption of objectionable ... cops and the courts exercise discretion here. There likely is discretion involved and the law probably needs some updating. The DIA website on this [1] makes it clear their concern is really around collection and "trade" of objectionable material. Not random people accidently viewing it (or even curious rubberneckers going for a look). It was much easier in a time when the law was largely written, and obtaining objectionable material meant having an actual physical copy. You most likely knew you were getting an objectionable DVD or book because you had to go to a back alley to buy it off a guy. The law couldn't anticipate people opening Facebook to find an autoplaying video of a massacre, hence why you're right wrt discretion that's probably in use now. [1] https://www.dia.govt.nz/Censorship-and-the-Internet https://www.dia.govt.nz/Censorship-and-the-Internet
  - sampo 8y ago
    > it seems like a happier and more relaxed way to live. This is striking below the belt and I apologize, but: I am sure a Chinese citizen would say the same. In public. When their government is monitoring.
- sb057 8y ago
  https://www.dia.govt.nz/Censorship-Objectionable-and-Restricted-Material https://www.dia.govt.nz/Censorship-Objectionable-and-Restric... >Anybody found “knowingly” in possession of objectionable material can receive a maximum of 10 years imprisonment. >Every time a person downloads objectionable material onto their screen, there is the potential for a possession offence having been committed.
  - erentz 8y ago
    >> Internal Affairs investigates and sometimes prosecutes people who deliberately collect objectionable material and find ways to distribute it to other people via the Internet. Occasionally, the nature of the Internet can lead to somebody viewing objectionable material by accident. >> If this happens to you, just leave the site immediately. You shouldn't knowingly go seeking it out this video. Just like you shouldn't knowingly go seeking out child porn. If you do, as I'm sure a lot have, just make sure you don't knowingly keep a copy on your computer. And by knowingly don't be a smartass about it and try to hide it thinking you can pretend you didn't know. Seriously just don't keep a copy and clear your cache.