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I see no reason for any workforces at any of the companies I have worked for as a developer to unionize. In my short career before that, however, I thought it w

I see no reason for any workforces at any of the companies I have worked for as a developer to unionize. In my short career before that, however, I thought it would be very helpful for the valet company I worked at to unionize.

root_axis 8y ago
I certainly have. They were mostly the places where if you weren't perceived as the type who is willing to stay till 8PM a few nights a week peppered with the occasional weekend PR, you were relegated to the "poor work ethic" caste. Unions aren't perfect, but they certainly stomp out this type of abuse and force the company to either hire more people or pay fairer wages.
- fastball 8y ago
  You're a senior developer and you don't think you're getting paid a fair wage? Ok...
  - root_axis 8y ago
    Huh? I never said that... Are you replying to the correct comment?
  - dlp211 8y ago
    Fair != Good. Fair wages for a given position and circumstance can be anywhere on the spectrum of compensation. I currently wish I had a union because I think I was unfairly evaluated in my current perf cycle, but there is no one to appeal my argument to which includes significant positive peer and managerial feedback. What I currently make has no impact on that.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    Why shouldn't he? The bigger valley companies got caught in a wage fixing scheme that by some estimates depressed wages by around 20% across the board, and all they did is send out a few checks for a few hundred to some of the employees. He's almost certainly not getting a fair market wage.
    - naravara 8y ago
      >Why shouldn't he? The bigger valley companies got caught in a wage fixing scheme that by some estimates depressed wages by around 20% across the board, and all they did is send out a few checks for a few hundred to some of the employees. >He's almost certainly not getting a fair market wage. Bingo! Complaints like that sound like people getting mad at professional athletes for getting paid and asking for more. If they get less money it's not as if you, the fan, are going to see that in lower ticket prices or anything. That's just money that goes to management instead. Why are YOU mad about it?
- sgregnt 8y ago
  Find a different work place.
  - root_axis 8y ago
    That's pretty good advice for a flippant one-liner, but the overworking of engineers is pretty common across the industry.
    - chillacy 8y ago
      There are jobs which are extremely chill. Think slower growing but still profitable companies, and then mobile or desktop development so there’s no on-call. 20-30 hour weeks, depending on how good you are at managing work perception and saying no.
    - solidasparagus 8y ago
      Software engineering talent is in extremely high demand and the supply is limited. You can find a job that pays well and provides excellent work-life balance. A good engineer that enforces very strong work-life boundaries is a still better than no engineer and that's the decision many companies are faced with. But you won't be paid or professionally respected quite as much as those that put in the hours - which seems like a perfectly fair trade off.
      - root_axis 8y ago
        You can find a job that pays well and provides excellent work-life balance Of course you can, so why doesn't everyone do it? Why is there so much written about work/life balance and burnout targeted at programmers (much of it featured on this very website)? Why is google lampooned for on-premises chefs and nap rooms? Why does every programmer in a 10 mile radius sneer when the phrase "unlimited vacation" is posted on the internet? you won't be paid or professionally respected quite as much as those that put in the hours Well that's certainly true, but putting in the extra hours doesn't necessarily equate to more pay or more respect, very often it equates to much more work and responsibility without much more pay.
moate 8y ago
This is only because developers are making so much money (in many circumstances). The fact that things are "good" doesn't mean they're "fair" or that they couldn't be "better". A good union would ideally be creating better working conditions for its members.
trophycase 8y ago
Maybe not yours, but maybe if there was a union at Facebook, Cambridge Analytica wouldn't have happened, or any number of their other scandals...

root_axis 8y ago

I certainly have. They were mostly the places where if you weren't perceived as the type who is willing to stay till 8PM a few nights a week peppered with the occasional weekend PR, you were relegated to the "poor work ethic" caste. Unions aren't perfect, but they certainly stomp out this type of abuse and force the company to either hire more people or pay fairer wages.

fastball 8y ago
You're a senior developer and you don't think you're getting paid a fair wage? Ok...
- root_axis 8y ago
  Huh? I never said that... Are you replying to the correct comment?
- dlp211 8y ago
  Fair != Good. Fair wages for a given position and circumstance can be anywhere on the spectrum of compensation. I currently wish I had a union because I think I was unfairly evaluated in my current perf cycle, but there is no one to appeal my argument to which includes significant positive peer and managerial feedback. What I currently make has no impact on that.
- monocasa 8y ago
  Why shouldn't he? The bigger valley companies got caught in a wage fixing scheme that by some estimates depressed wages by around 20% across the board, and all they did is send out a few checks for a few hundred to some of the employees. He's almost certainly not getting a fair market wage.
  - naravara 8y ago
    >Why shouldn't he? The bigger valley companies got caught in a wage fixing scheme that by some estimates depressed wages by around 20% across the board, and all they did is send out a few checks for a few hundred to some of the employees. >He's almost certainly not getting a fair market wage. Bingo! Complaints like that sound like people getting mad at professional athletes for getting paid and asking for more. If they get less money it's not as if you, the fan, are going to see that in lower ticket prices or anything. That's just money that goes to management instead. Why are YOU mad about it?
sgregnt 8y ago
Find a different work place.
- root_axis 8y ago
  That's pretty good advice for a flippant one-liner, but the overworking of engineers is pretty common across the industry.
  - chillacy 8y ago
    There are jobs which are extremely chill. Think slower growing but still profitable companies, and then mobile or desktop development so there’s no on-call. 20-30 hour weeks, depending on how good you are at managing work perception and saying no.
  - solidasparagus 8y ago
    Software engineering talent is in extremely high demand and the supply is limited. You can find a job that pays well and provides excellent work-life balance. A good engineer that enforces very strong work-life boundaries is a still better than no engineer and that's the decision many companies are faced with. But you won't be paid or professionally respected quite as much as those that put in the hours - which seems like a perfectly fair trade off.
    - root_axis 8y ago
      You can find a job that pays well and provides excellent work-life balance Of course you can, so why doesn't everyone do it? Why is there so much written about work/life balance and burnout targeted at programmers (much of it featured on this very website)? Why is google lampooned for on-premises chefs and nap rooms? Why does every programmer in a 10 mile radius sneer when the phrase "unlimited vacation" is posted on the internet? you won't be paid or professionally respected quite as much as those that put in the hours Well that's certainly true, but putting in the extra hours doesn't necessarily equate to more pay or more respect, very often it equates to much more work and responsibility without much more pay.

moate 8y ago

This is only because developers are making so much money (in many circumstances). The fact that things are "good" doesn't mean they're "fair" or that they couldn't be "better". A good union would ideally be creating better working conditions for its members.

trophycase 8y ago

Maybe not yours, but maybe if there was a union at Facebook, Cambridge Analytica wouldn't have happened, or any number of their other scandals...