6 ms·

It'll never happen so long as there are "gamers" who want to work in the industry they "love", unfortunately.

by diminoten 8y ago

ForHackernews 8y ago
Why not? The US film industry is mostly unionized, and there's tons of people who love movies, too.
- diminoten 8y ago
  The supply of jobs is much lower in the games industry relative to the demand.
  - usefulcat 8y ago
    Don't know why you're downvoted; that is exactly right. There's nothing particularly unusual about game dev jobs or companies compared to other areas of tech (especially including startups); it's just that there are a lot of people who want to work on games. It's been that way for at least a couple of decades now.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      I think people assume I'm anti-developer or anti-union, but I was just trying to remind people stuff they seem to be discounting (but already know -- nothing I said was innovative at all). It really isn't that complicated, I don't believe. :/
  - robocat 8y ago
    And there are way more actors than acting jobs. Yet they have the SAG-AFTRA union which had a strike to force better working conditions from games companies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_video_game_voice_actor_strike https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_video_game_voice_act...
    - diminoten 8y ago
      There are "way more" actors in the sense that there are many people who want to act for a living, but the analogy doesn't hold from an education and experience married to that desire standpoint. Further acting is older than gaming, and those unions were given space to form during a period of time that was very different from today.
      - naravara 8y ago
        >Further acting is older than gaming, and those unions were given space to form during a period of time that was very different from today. In the 1930s back when union organizing was likely to get you beaten by goons or assassinated by hitmen/the mob? Or in the 1940s and '50s, when active membership in the union put you at risk of getting brought up in front of the House Unamerican Activities Committee and blacklisted from ever working again?
        diminoten 8y ago
        That's not at all how the film industry's unions formed or any of its history, and blackballing a statistically small number of writers was wrong, but completely unrelated to what we're talking about...
      - Animats 8y ago
        If you think they were "given space", read up on the history of the labor movement in the US. IATSE Local 728 has an article about their own history that doesn't gloss over the bad stuff.[1] [1] https://www.iatse728.org/about-us/history/the-war-for-warner-brothers https://www.iatse728.org/about-us/history/the-war-for-warner...
        diminoten 8y ago
        Labor movement != film industry union movement. A lot of the issues other labor movements experienced simply didn't happen nearly to the extent in film.
  - andrewflnr 8y ago
    I suspect not. My family hosted a couple aspiring actors in LA as boarders. They left because they couldn't get enough work. There's a lot of people out there trying to break in to Hollywood.
  - egypturnash 8y ago
    There's a lot more kids who grow up wanting to be animators than there are animation jobs, and yet they have a successful union.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      "A lot" is not nearly as many as there are competent programmers who want to break into the games industry. The concept is similar, the volume of people is vastly different, however.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
naravara 8y ago
>It'll never happen so long as there are "gamers" who want to work in the industry they "love", unfortunately. Judging by the gamer-centric media, it seems like most of them hate the industry and most of the major companies in it. They love small developers, they love making games, they love their Twitch streamers, but they hate the companies with a burning passion. Unfortunately, that passion often gets channeled into harassing women and minorities instead of going anywhere productive.
cableshaft 8y ago
Part of the problem is it's too easy to just leave the industry altogether to get better working conditions, and then after a few years out you don't have the skills (or the willingness to be screwed over) to go back in. The all too common path seems to be enter the industry for a few years, endure crap that none of your friends that do similar jobs outside of the industry endure for a lot less money, actually want to plan for the future at some point, then get a job outside of the industry, and even though you love games, you just can't go back to getting mistreated. That was what I did, and lots of other coworkers I had, and is why the industry seems to have a huge dearth of senior talent. So the people who would be most willing to unionize are no longer in the industry to do so.

It'll never happen so long as there are "gamers" who want to work in the industry they "love", unfortunately.

ForHackernews 8y ago

Why not? The US film industry is mostly unionized, and there's tons of people who love movies, too.

diminoten 8y ago
The supply of jobs is much lower in the games industry relative to the demand.
- usefulcat 8y ago
  Don't know why you're downvoted; that is exactly right. There's nothing particularly unusual about game dev jobs or companies compared to other areas of tech (especially including startups); it's just that there are a lot of people who want to work on games. It's been that way for at least a couple of decades now.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    I think people assume I'm anti-developer or anti-union, but I was just trying to remind people stuff they seem to be discounting (but already know -- nothing I said was innovative at all). It really isn't that complicated, I don't believe. :/
- robocat 8y ago
  And there are way more actors than acting jobs. Yet they have the SAG-AFTRA union which had a strike to force better working conditions from games companies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_video_game_voice_actor_strike https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_video_game_voice_act...
  - diminoten 8y ago
    There are "way more" actors in the sense that there are many people who want to act for a living, but the analogy doesn't hold from an education and experience married to that desire standpoint. Further acting is older than gaming, and those unions were given space to form during a period of time that was very different from today.
    - naravara 8y ago
      >Further acting is older than gaming, and those unions were given space to form during a period of time that was very different from today. In the 1930s back when union organizing was likely to get you beaten by goons or assassinated by hitmen/the mob? Or in the 1940s and '50s, when active membership in the union put you at risk of getting brought up in front of the House Unamerican Activities Committee and blacklisted from ever working again?
      - diminoten 8y ago
        That's not at all how the film industry's unions formed or any of its history, and blackballing a statistically small number of writers was wrong, but completely unrelated to what we're talking about...
    - Animats 8y ago
      If you think they were "given space", read up on the history of the labor movement in the US. IATSE Local 728 has an article about their own history that doesn't gloss over the bad stuff.[1] [1] https://www.iatse728.org/about-us/history/the-war-for-warner-brothers https://www.iatse728.org/about-us/history/the-war-for-warner...
      - diminoten 8y ago
        Labor movement != film industry union movement. A lot of the issues other labor movements experienced simply didn't happen nearly to the extent in film.
- andrewflnr 8y ago
  I suspect not. My family hosted a couple aspiring actors in LA as boarders. They left because they couldn't get enough work. There's a lot of people out there trying to break in to Hollywood.
- egypturnash 8y ago
  There's a lot more kids who grow up wanting to be animators than there are animation jobs, and yet they have a successful union.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    "A lot" is not nearly as many as there are competent programmers who want to break into the games industry. The concept is similar, the volume of people is vastly different, however.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

naravara 8y ago

>It'll never happen so long as there are "gamers" who want to work in the industry they "love", unfortunately. Judging by the gamer-centric media, it seems like most of them hate the industry and most of the major companies in it. They love small developers, they love making games, they love their Twitch streamers, but they hate the companies with a burning passion. Unfortunately, that passion often gets channeled into harassing women and minorities instead of going anywhere productive.

cableshaft 8y ago

Part of the problem is it's too easy to just leave the industry altogether to get better working conditions, and then after a few years out you don't have the skills (or the willingness to be screwed over) to go back in. The all too common path seems to be enter the industry for a few years, endure crap that none of your friends that do similar jobs outside of the industry endure for a lot less money, actually want to plan for the future at some point, then get a job outside of the industry, and even though you love games, you just can't go back to getting mistreated. That was what I did, and lots of other coworkers I had, and is why the industry seems to have a huge dearth of senior talent. So the people who would be most willing to unionize are no longer in the industry to do so.