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> choosing careers which would appear to help them be more socially engaged... it's not so much a function of the nature of our field Are you questioning which

> choosing careers which would appear to help them be more socially engaged... it's not so much a function of the nature of our field Are you questioning which career is in fact more socially engaged? Can you name a field which is less socially engaged than CS/Math? It seems to me that it is a function of the nature of our field, which demands long stretches of unbroken attention, that draws people who desire large amounts of social activity away.

DaniFong 18y ago
Undoubtably some tech jobs are suitable only for hermits. But the variance within fields, as is the variance within genders, dwarfs by far the variance between them.
- llimllib 18y ago
  > the variance within fields, as is the variance within genders, dwarfs by far the variance between them. This is a slightly weaker statement than the one made above, but I still don't agree with it. Surely there is variance, but the median programmer is far far less social than the median (for example) doctor. Yes, there are Tim Brays on our side who are quite socially oriented and radiologists and virologists who never see actual patients on their side, but every real programming job requires you to be alone and focused on a computer for long stretches of time. Is this incorrect somehow? What programming positions don't require this? (My fiancee is a resident, and I assure you that she does not spend long stretches of time on singularly focused tasks like programmers do - you will have to have a spectacularly convincing argument to convince me otherwise)
  - DaniFong 18y ago
    I actually didn't argue with that. Maybe the 'typical' programming job is a terrible fit for the 'typical' woman. But there's a solution. Forget the 'typical' programming job. Even if the typical tech career would suck, it's still possible that of all possible careers, there a tech career that's the best for you. I think this is largely true in the startup world. And I think that if the press on startups focused less on founder youth, geekiness, and round-the-clock machismo, and more on the social benefit produced, the freedom gained, and the excitement experienced, we'd start to see very different people founding companies and working in computers. One might even suggest that's already starting to happen. Many fields can have long periods spent alone, honing one's abilities. Lawyers can. Writers can. Musicians can. Housewifes can. It may be a defining hallmark of technical careers, but I think it's far overrepresented in both the media, and our own heads.
gizmo 18y ago
Electrical Engineering is the worst in my experience. Then Computer Science. Then physics. Then math. Math people are probably as introverted as people from Electrical Engineering, but they don't proudly carry their social incompetence as a label. Biologists who, say, monitor and log the behavior of animal life also wait for hours in pure concentration, so they won't miss anything when (or if) something happens. Usually introverted people sign up for that kind of thing, but not really socially awkward ones.
- wallflower 18y ago
  I remember long hours with difficult homework sets while my liberal arts major friends would go out and party. I only know a few engineers who could get their homework done and party. Engineering doesn't give you a lot of free time to party - I spent years of my life in the engineering building - liberal arts majors on the other hand...they can have a different college experience. Most of the girls who were in my program were smarter. Why would you choose a major that puts a major crimp in your social life?

DaniFong 18y ago

Undoubtably some tech jobs are suitable only for hermits. But the variance within fields, as is the variance within genders, dwarfs by far the variance between them.

llimllib 18y ago
> the variance within fields, as is the variance within genders, dwarfs by far the variance between them. This is a slightly weaker statement than the one made above, but I still don't agree with it. Surely there is variance, but the median programmer is far far less social than the median (for example) doctor. Yes, there are Tim Brays on our side who are quite socially oriented and radiologists and virologists who never see actual patients on their side, but every real programming job requires you to be alone and focused on a computer for long stretches of time. Is this incorrect somehow? What programming positions don't require this? (My fiancee is a resident, and I assure you that she does not spend long stretches of time on singularly focused tasks like programmers do - you will have to have a spectacularly convincing argument to convince me otherwise)
- DaniFong 18y ago
  I actually didn't argue with that. Maybe the 'typical' programming job is a terrible fit for the 'typical' woman. But there's a solution. Forget the 'typical' programming job. Even if the typical tech career would suck, it's still possible that of all possible careers, there a tech career that's the best for you. I think this is largely true in the startup world. And I think that if the press on startups focused less on founder youth, geekiness, and round-the-clock machismo, and more on the social benefit produced, the freedom gained, and the excitement experienced, we'd start to see very different people founding companies and working in computers. One might even suggest that's already starting to happen. Many fields can have long periods spent alone, honing one's abilities. Lawyers can. Writers can. Musicians can. Housewifes can. It may be a defining hallmark of technical careers, but I think it's far overrepresented in both the media, and our own heads.

gizmo 18y ago

Electrical Engineering is the worst in my experience. Then Computer Science. Then physics. Then math. Math people are probably as introverted as people from Electrical Engineering, but they don't proudly carry their social incompetence as a label. Biologists who, say, monitor and log the behavior of animal life also wait for hours in pure concentration, so they won't miss anything when (or if) something happens. Usually introverted people sign up for that kind of thing, but not really socially awkward ones.

wallflower 18y ago
I remember long hours with difficult homework sets while my liberal arts major friends would go out and party. I only know a few engineers who could get their homework done and party. Engineering doesn't give you a lot of free time to party - I spent years of my life in the engineering building - liberal arts majors on the other hand...they can have a different college experience. Most of the girls who were in my program were smarter. Why would you choose a major that puts a major crimp in your social life?