4 ms·

I wish the US would adopt the German model where unions are for whole sectors. That way it's a level playing field for all companies.

xienze 8y ago
Where did you get the idea that there aren't industry-wide unions in the US? UA is, for instance, a national plumbing union, with numerous local chapters.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  That's good! My girlfriend works for SEIU and they have different contracts with pretty much every employer. this causes a lot of friction.
egypturnash 8y ago
There's a lot of lobbying and work between the current generally anti-union situation of the US and that sort of setup. I'm quite sure the German model is the result of no small amount of work on the part of the unions. Join the union at your job, ask why there isn't a union at your job if there isn't one, find a freelancer's union if you're not working for The Man, give some of your time/money/skills to people fighting for unions...
duxup 8y ago
When I've described my experience with American unions it I hear a lot for Europeans who report their unions are far different than my experience. The American union tradition / behavior seems quite different than what I hear about elsewhere. I'm interested in the European systems, but very very wary of the US systems. Too many US unions are really just bureaucracies on their own, emphasize seniority for pay, advancement, and etc, and seem to limit options for workers in terms of flexibility. And to some extent american unions become their own bureaucracy serving the folks embedded in that bureaucracy. Granted for some jobs that probabbly is ok, but for technical things, I'm very wary about flexibility and etc. My experience with American unions has been highly disappointing and I'm skeptical about their ability to handle a more technical / fast changing world.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  From my experience the US workplace is much more hostile both ways. Either the employer will screw over the employees or the union will try screw the employer. At least in Germany it'a little more collaborative partially because of laws that give employees some say how the company is run.
  - duxup 8y ago
    I really never felt that way in the US. I think the negative type stuff makes the news, but I don't think that reflects the system over all. US unions in my experience don't so much give people say in my experience, they just make for a sort of formalize a system into an adversarial type one with union and company. For the most part I've enjoyed working for my employers and would rather manage that relationship on my own and not have someone else run it for me. There are situations where folks might not feel that way too I'm sure.
  - eqdw 8y ago
    It's not hostile, it's professional. I advocate for my interests, you advocate for your interests, and we negotiate to find out a compromise that works for both of us. During this process, I do not worry about your interests (that's your job), and you do not worry about mine. We trust each other to take responsibility for our own interests and proceed accordingly. I can understand why this would seem hostile to someone who isn't acculturated to it, but I don't find it hostile at all. I find it _honest_. The other side isn't pretending to care about me, and they aren't making hamfisted attempts to look out for my interests in ways that I don't like but they think I do (or should).
    - ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
      I don't understand how the union isn't basically holding the company hostage. A company can't fire all their union employees, so if the union decides they'll only accept a deal that includes a 50% raise, what do you do? I'm being serious here, from what I can tell it's not legal to fire your union employees. So what do you do?
eqdw 8y ago
The German model is explicitly illegal in the US. I cannot explain why, but I saw a guy on reddit once break down why German unions are great, US unions are terrible, and why the US can never have German unions
godzillabrennus 8y ago
Not a lot of German startups crushing it. Unions sound great on paper but would make it hard to build a big startup. If that’s the route people think things should go it’d be a big cultural shift from the status quo.
marcinzm 8y ago
I know a German SE who was senior and had a good job in Germany. He moved to the US and his total comp went up something like 5x (at a company with good benefits, work life balance, etc).
srs_sput 8y ago
I feel so confused by the large negative reaction to this thread. The unions in other countries have done great things for workers. In Germany, most employed individuals get 6 weeks of vacation and 35 to 40 hour a week contracts. People are scared they're salary is going to go down the hole for some reason. A tech union can exist with pay scales that match current peoples compensation. Articles like this really put into perspective how strong the American perspective is here.
jeffreybaird 8y ago
This is much more similar to the IWW model of organizing.

xienze 8y ago

Where did you get the idea that there aren't industry-wide unions in the US? UA is, for instance, a national plumbing union, with numerous local chapters.

maxxxxx 8y ago
That's good! My girlfriend works for SEIU and they have different contracts with pretty much every employer. this causes a lot of friction.

egypturnash 8y ago

There's a lot of lobbying and work between the current generally anti-union situation of the US and that sort of setup. I'm quite sure the German model is the result of no small amount of work on the part of the unions. Join the union at your job, ask why there isn't a union at your job if there isn't one, find a freelancer's union if you're not working for The Man, give some of your time/money/skills to people fighting for unions...

duxup 8y ago

When I've described my experience with American unions it I hear a lot for Europeans who report their unions are far different than my experience. The American union tradition / behavior seems quite different than what I hear about elsewhere. I'm interested in the European systems, but very very wary of the US systems. Too many US unions are really just bureaucracies on their own, emphasize seniority for pay, advancement, and etc, and seem to limit options for workers in terms of flexibility. And to some extent american unions become their own bureaucracy serving the folks embedded in that bureaucracy. Granted for some jobs that probabbly is ok, but for technical things, I'm very wary about flexibility and etc. My experience with American unions has been highly disappointing and I'm skeptical about their ability to handle a more technical / fast changing world.

maxxxxx 8y ago
From my experience the US workplace is much more hostile both ways. Either the employer will screw over the employees or the union will try screw the employer. At least in Germany it'a little more collaborative partially because of laws that give employees some say how the company is run.
- duxup 8y ago
  I really never felt that way in the US. I think the negative type stuff makes the news, but I don't think that reflects the system over all. US unions in my experience don't so much give people say in my experience, they just make for a sort of formalize a system into an adversarial type one with union and company. For the most part I've enjoyed working for my employers and would rather manage that relationship on my own and not have someone else run it for me. There are situations where folks might not feel that way too I'm sure.
- eqdw 8y ago
  It's not hostile, it's professional. I advocate for my interests, you advocate for your interests, and we negotiate to find out a compromise that works for both of us. During this process, I do not worry about your interests (that's your job), and you do not worry about mine. We trust each other to take responsibility for our own interests and proceed accordingly. I can understand why this would seem hostile to someone who isn't acculturated to it, but I don't find it hostile at all. I find it _honest_. The other side isn't pretending to care about me, and they aren't making hamfisted attempts to look out for my interests in ways that I don't like but they think I do (or should).
  - ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
    I don't understand how the union isn't basically holding the company hostage. A company can't fire all their union employees, so if the union decides they'll only accept a deal that includes a 50% raise, what do you do? I'm being serious here, from what I can tell it's not legal to fire your union employees. So what do you do?

eqdw 8y ago

The German model is explicitly illegal in the US. I cannot explain why, but I saw a guy on reddit once break down why German unions are great, US unions are terrible, and why the US can never have German unions

godzillabrennus 8y ago

Not a lot of German startups crushing it. Unions sound great on paper but would make it hard to build a big startup. If that’s the route people think things should go it’d be a big cultural shift from the status quo.

marcinzm 8y ago

I know a German SE who was senior and had a good job in Germany. He moved to the US and his total comp went up something like 5x (at a company with good benefits, work life balance, etc).

srs_sput 8y ago

I feel so confused by the large negative reaction to this thread. The unions in other countries have done great things for workers. In Germany, most employed individuals get 6 weeks of vacation and 35 to 40 hour a week contracts. People are scared they're salary is going to go down the hole for some reason. A tech union can exist with pay scales that match current peoples compensation. Articles like this really put into perspective how strong the American perspective is here.

jeffreybaird 8y ago

This is much more similar to the IWW model of organizing.