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I'm not sure "infinity miles per gallon" makes sense on the electric side. The EIA publishes statistics about power generation in the United States: http://www

by tshtf 16y ago

I'm not sure "infinity miles per gallon" makes sense on the electric side. The EIA publishes statistics about power generation in the United States: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epa_sum.html http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epa_sum.html Since 68.8% of power generation in the United States comes from non-renewable resources (coal, gas, and petroleum), it makes sense that the EPA would use some sort of system to describe the MPG for cars running on electric power.

pyre 16y ago
Then why aren't all of the energy costs associated getting that gasoline to the pump factored into the cost of MPG on normal cars then? People are so quick to point out the 'hidden costs' of electric cars, while ignoring things like: * Drilling for crude oil * Harvesting crude oil * Shipping crude oil * Refining oil into gasoline * Shipping gasoline ... etc ...
hugh3 16y ago
They really should give it in miles-per-megajoule or something, though, rather than "mpg equivalent", which only serves to confuse people. What is a "gallon equivalent" of electricity anyway? Is it the amount of electricity you'd get if you burned the gallon and generated electricity at 100% efficiency? Or the amount that you'd get if you used it to generate electricity with power-plant efficiency (which incidentally is pretty high)? Or perhaps it's the amount of electricity you get if you burn the CO2-emissions equivalent amount of coal? Or the dollar equivalent amount of coal? Or... well, there's a bunch of other possible definitions.
wtallis 16y ago
Miles per gallon of coal? If you're going to try to come up with an equivalent number, are you going to base it on carbon emissions or on cost to the consumer? Either way, it will be highly variable: gas prices fluctuate relative to electricity prices, and different sources of electricity lead to different emissions per kWh. At least with gasoline-powered cars, the differences between EPA estimates and real-world consumption are factors under the driver's control. This isn't the case with BS numbers for EVs, so the numbers end up being pretty much useless to the consumer. If the number is not going to be useful to the consumer, then there's no reason to mandate it be on the sticker.
- hugh3 16y ago
  If the number is not going to be useful to the consumer, then there's no reason to mandate it be on the sticker. Having some sort of number there is useful; as electric cars become more common we'll need some way of comparing their efficiency. Right now you can find out that the Volt at 93 "mpge" is slightly less efficient than the Nissan Leaf at 99 "mpge". I'd still much rather have it in the less ambiguous units of miles per kilowatt hour. (Or if they really want to appeal to physicists, they should give it in units of inverse force. 1 mile per kilowatt hour = 447.04 inverse MegaNewtons.)

by tshtf 16y ago

pyre 16y ago

Then why aren't all of the energy costs associated getting that gasoline to the pump factored into the cost of MPG on normal cars then? People are so quick to point out the 'hidden costs' of electric cars, while ignoring things like: * Drilling for crude oil * Harvesting crude oil * Shipping crude oil * Refining oil into gasoline * Shipping gasoline ... etc ...

hugh3 16y ago

They really should give it in miles-per-megajoule or something, though, rather than "mpg equivalent", which only serves to confuse people. What is a "gallon equivalent" of electricity anyway? Is it the amount of electricity you'd get if you burned the gallon and generated electricity at 100% efficiency? Or the amount that you'd get if you used it to generate electricity with power-plant efficiency (which incidentally is pretty high)? Or perhaps it's the amount of electricity you get if you burn the CO2-emissions equivalent amount of coal? Or the dollar equivalent amount of coal? Or... well, there's a bunch of other possible definitions.

wtallis 16y ago

Miles per gallon of coal? If you're going to try to come up with an equivalent number, are you going to base it on carbon emissions or on cost to the consumer? Either way, it will be highly variable: gas prices fluctuate relative to electricity prices, and different sources of electricity lead to different emissions per kWh. At least with gasoline-powered cars, the differences between EPA estimates and real-world consumption are factors under the driver's control. This isn't the case with BS numbers for EVs, so the numbers end up being pretty much useless to the consumer. If the number is not going to be useful to the consumer, then there's no reason to mandate it be on the sticker.

hugh3 16y ago
If the number is not going to be useful to the consumer, then there's no reason to mandate it be on the sticker. Having some sort of number there is useful; as electric cars become more common we'll need some way of comparing their efficiency. Right now you can find out that the Volt at 93 "mpge" is slightly less efficient than the Nissan Leaf at 99 "mpge". I'd still much rather have it in the less ambiguous units of miles per kilowatt hour. (Or if they really want to appeal to physicists, they should give it in units of inverse force. 1 mile per kilowatt hour = 447.04 inverse MegaNewtons.)