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How about allowing remote workers? I don't get the resistance to it. I pay for my computer. I pay for my own coffee/tea. I pay the electrical bill. I pay for m

by evo_9 8y ago

How about allowing remote workers? I don't get the resistance to it. I pay for my computer. I pay for my own coffee/tea. I pay the electrical bill. I pay for my phone/internet. My quality of life goes up massively. God forbid we work remote and avoid traffic and all the headaches of commuting.

downrightmike 8y ago
Employers want you under their thumb so they can squeeze you harder.
tathougies 8y ago
I'm not sure what this comment means. California obviously allows remote workers.
- vtange 8y ago
  Highly depends on the team. I've seen teams where most members are remote but most teams I've been on shun working-from-home regularly. That and most companies pay based off "cost of living" and you cannot expect Bay Area pay outside of the Bay Area. Asking for work-anywhere-in-the-world remote work basically feels like shooting yourself in the foot if you value compensation.
  - colordrops 8y ago
    More like depends on the boss. I've been at my current company to see remote work come and go based on leadership.
  - tathougies 8y ago
    Right, but California and California corporations are two completely different entities. California cannot legislate remote work, anymore than a california corporation can legislate the property tax.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > California cannot legislate remote work Well, it obviously can (states having general police power and there being no federal right to non-remote work incorporated against the states that would bar such legislation), but it probably shouldn't.
- tsukurimashou 8y ago
  I'm sure they allow it, but is it "easy" to find a remote job there? I think he meant "a lot of companies still don't accept remote worker"
- koolba 8y ago
  Just wait till they realize the additional taxation (without that pesky representation) they can get by taxing remote workers.
QualityReboot 8y ago
I moved out of CA and switched to remote work. It's been 100% positive. I would recommend it to anyone who can swing it.
tsukurimashou 8y ago
Here in France it is even worst, we're still 20 years behind in mentality regarding remote work Most managers here think remote work = staying at home playing video games, even if you're lucky enough to find a company ok with you doing 1 or 2 days per week at home, you have to report everything you do because they're extra paranoid about it
- eloisant 8y ago
  Not really, at least for developers you just have to look for the right company. Also, if you live in France but are looking for remote work anyway, no need to restrict yourself to French companies. That's the whole point of remote. So it's still not easy, especially if you're junior, but from my experience I don't think the situation in US is much better.
orestes910 8y ago
I think it comes down to performance measurement being a really weak area for many companies. No one really knows whats real when it comes to output over a 40 hour week, and so bosses are afraid of getting shafted by an employee whom they can't see toiling away at their desk. It's all but fact that a 40 hour work week doesn't result in 40 hours of productivity. Those non productive hours are seen as acceptable in an office for some reason, but when you're at home and can fire up a video game, it's sacrilege.
- colordrops 8y ago
  The fact is that not everyone has the discipline to be productive while working remotely, and a company requires a different way of hiring, operating, and measuring to support remote work.
- mc32 8y ago
  Coordination is easier too when projects involve the cooperation of multiple individuals to get things accomplished. Escalating to more senior people is also easier when someone can walk over and ask for help in some situations.
- snarf21 8y ago
  You are right that employers want "proof" and butts in seats is a proxy. Having everyone go remote also requires changes to process and communications to keep people in sync. It requires tools and works to get everyone on the same page and keep them there. Most companies don't want to evolve to solve this, it is easier to rent a building.
big_youth 8y ago
Quality of life is even better in California if you are remote. I don't see how this helps. I used to live in Austin but after getting a remote job I moved to LA. I get to live in an amazing, walkable neighborhood and rarely deal with the notorious LA commuting nightmare.
- josephjrobison 8y ago
  Where at in LA? What areas do you recommend from your research?
  - big_youth 8y ago
    I'm currently in Echo Park, a few blocks from Sunset. Downtown is great if you want a true urban feel and don't mind the homeless. I found a deal on rent but was looking heavily at Macarther park to Koreatown area. I've heard parts of Hollywood are good and pretty well connected on transit lines but didn't really explore.
  - kkhire 8y ago
    people don't know this but LA is surprisingly fine without a car if you live in the right areas. There are many people who live in west hollywood, downtown, santa monica who don't have cars! lyft/uber are also relatively cheap here.
- kkhire 8y ago
  living in LA without a car is the biggest lifestyle hack I've ever done. Best of all worlds.
recursive 8y ago
My experience is that there's more communication friction when working remotely. I prefer being on-site in an office. Being remote can make it feel like a struggle not to get left behind.
- pmiller2 8y ago
  This is a major reason I don’t like to work from home any more than necessary. I would also never go full time remote, because, as another commenter says, comp is usually based on cost of living. If I’m delivering the same value in, say, Arizona vs California, why should I get penalized for living somewhere that isn’t insanely expensive?
gautamdivgi 8y ago
A lot of times face to face interaction really trumps anything over the phone. Just being able to catch someone quickly for a discussion is one of the main pain points of "remote work" where you may be on a "send chat message -> wait -> wait some more -> ok I'm going to get coffee -> rats, I missed her/him -> ..." cycle. I think a permanent telepresence can avoid some of these issues. But it brings to fore some privacy issues where people at work have a video feed into your home (its office space - but its your home nonetheless).
duxup 8y ago
Some places, just don't want to. I worked for a company based in the valley who bought a company that had some remote offices. I was at one of the remote offices. The acquiring company had technical support teams in the valley too so that they could be "close to the engineers". We got a lot of "don't know if these guys out in Minnesota can do this..." kind of push back, lots of talk about how they all had computer science degrees / we did not, but they couldn't find enough warm bodies in the area so they were told they had to take us on. So I traveled out there to see these hot shot super smart guys and after about half a day I was astonished by how ... not super high performers these guys were. In about a month we were out performing them on every metric (granted metrics can suck) and they accused us openly of "cheating". So they got someone to audit all the metrics, they found the guys in the valley were "cheating" (effectively they were closing cases regardless of resolution). And about that being "close to the engineers", the engineering teams actually asked cases be transferred to me as they got tired of the work the local guys were doing and their habit of not thinking before they'd go over to the next building and hand them a half through through problem. At times to skip the bureaucracy, folks in the valley would call me in MN, to then contact an engineering manager in CA to get them going, the engineering team's management knew I didn't create false alarms / wouldn't send them into a bad spot flying blind. Now beyond the management bickering I actually got along with those guys, but it was a constant battle of people just not believing that other people could get the job done. They thought they were amazing, but really they had no clue what was outside the valley and a couple other cities. They just assumed about the rest of the world. Meanwhile we also were about 2/3rds the cost and were more productive. Eventually the company was bought again and they cut all the remote offices altogether. After I was laid off, my job went up on the internet, no remote workers (job is back in the valley), computer science degree required, many years experience required. All for a job an ok college grad could do, maybe even less than that, but they just don't belive it.

by evo_9 8y ago

downrightmike 8y ago

Employers want you under their thumb so they can squeeze you harder.

tathougies 8y ago

I'm not sure what this comment means. California obviously allows remote workers.

vtange 8y ago
Highly depends on the team. I've seen teams where most members are remote but most teams I've been on shun working-from-home regularly. That and most companies pay based off "cost of living" and you cannot expect Bay Area pay outside of the Bay Area. Asking for work-anywhere-in-the-world remote work basically feels like shooting yourself in the foot if you value compensation.
- colordrops 8y ago
  More like depends on the boss. I've been at my current company to see remote work come and go based on leadership.
- tathougies 8y ago
  Right, but California and California corporations are two completely different entities. California cannot legislate remote work, anymore than a california corporation can legislate the property tax.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > California cannot legislate remote work Well, it obviously can (states having general police power and there being no federal right to non-remote work incorporated against the states that would bar such legislation), but it probably shouldn't.
tsukurimashou 8y ago
I'm sure they allow it, but is it "easy" to find a remote job there? I think he meant "a lot of companies still don't accept remote worker"
koolba 8y ago
Just wait till they realize the additional taxation (without that pesky representation) they can get by taxing remote workers.

QualityReboot 8y ago

I moved out of CA and switched to remote work. It's been 100% positive. I would recommend it to anyone who can swing it.

tsukurimashou 8y ago

Here in France it is even worst, we're still 20 years behind in mentality regarding remote work Most managers here think remote work = staying at home playing video games, even if you're lucky enough to find a company ok with you doing 1 or 2 days per week at home, you have to report everything you do because they're extra paranoid about it

eloisant 8y ago
Not really, at least for developers you just have to look for the right company. Also, if you live in France but are looking for remote work anyway, no need to restrict yourself to French companies. That's the whole point of remote. So it's still not easy, especially if you're junior, but from my experience I don't think the situation in US is much better.

orestes910 8y ago

I think it comes down to performance measurement being a really weak area for many companies. No one really knows whats real when it comes to output over a 40 hour week, and so bosses are afraid of getting shafted by an employee whom they can't see toiling away at their desk. It's all but fact that a 40 hour work week doesn't result in 40 hours of productivity. Those non productive hours are seen as acceptable in an office for some reason, but when you're at home and can fire up a video game, it's sacrilege.

colordrops 8y ago
The fact is that not everyone has the discipline to be productive while working remotely, and a company requires a different way of hiring, operating, and measuring to support remote work.
mc32 8y ago
Coordination is easier too when projects involve the cooperation of multiple individuals to get things accomplished. Escalating to more senior people is also easier when someone can walk over and ask for help in some situations.
snarf21 8y ago
You are right that employers want "proof" and butts in seats is a proxy. Having everyone go remote also requires changes to process and communications to keep people in sync. It requires tools and works to get everyone on the same page and keep them there. Most companies don't want to evolve to solve this, it is easier to rent a building.

big_youth 8y ago

Quality of life is even better in California if you are remote. I don't see how this helps. I used to live in Austin but after getting a remote job I moved to LA. I get to live in an amazing, walkable neighborhood and rarely deal with the notorious LA commuting nightmare.

josephjrobison 8y ago
Where at in LA? What areas do you recommend from your research?
- big_youth 8y ago
  I'm currently in Echo Park, a few blocks from Sunset. Downtown is great if you want a true urban feel and don't mind the homeless. I found a deal on rent but was looking heavily at Macarther park to Koreatown area. I've heard parts of Hollywood are good and pretty well connected on transit lines but didn't really explore.
- kkhire 8y ago
  people don't know this but LA is surprisingly fine without a car if you live in the right areas. There are many people who live in west hollywood, downtown, santa monica who don't have cars! lyft/uber are also relatively cheap here.
kkhire 8y ago
living in LA without a car is the biggest lifestyle hack I've ever done. Best of all worlds.

recursive 8y ago

My experience is that there's more communication friction when working remotely. I prefer being on-site in an office. Being remote can make it feel like a struggle not to get left behind.

pmiller2 8y ago
This is a major reason I don’t like to work from home any more than necessary. I would also never go full time remote, because, as another commenter says, comp is usually based on cost of living. If I’m delivering the same value in, say, Arizona vs California, why should I get penalized for living somewhere that isn’t insanely expensive?

gautamdivgi 8y ago

A lot of times face to face interaction really trumps anything over the phone. Just being able to catch someone quickly for a discussion is one of the main pain points of "remote work" where you may be on a "send chat message -> wait -> wait some more -> ok I'm going to get coffee -> rats, I missed her/him -> ..." cycle. I think a permanent telepresence can avoid some of these issues. But it brings to fore some privacy issues where people at work have a video feed into your home (its office space - but its your home nonetheless).

duxup 8y ago

Some places, just don't want to. I worked for a company based in the valley who bought a company that had some remote offices. I was at one of the remote offices. The acquiring company had technical support teams in the valley too so that they could be "close to the engineers". We got a lot of "don't know if these guys out in Minnesota can do this..." kind of push back, lots of talk about how they all had computer science degrees / we did not, but they couldn't find enough warm bodies in the area so they were told they had to take us on. So I traveled out there to see these hot shot super smart guys and after about half a day I was astonished by how ... not super high performers these guys were. In about a month we were out performing them on every metric (granted metrics can suck) and they accused us openly of "cheating". So they got someone to audit all the metrics, they found the guys in the valley were "cheating" (effectively they were closing cases regardless of resolution). And about that being "close to the engineers", the engineering teams actually asked cases be transferred to me as they got tired of the work the local guys were doing and their habit of not thinking before they'd go over to the next building and hand them a half through through problem. At times to skip the bureaucracy, folks in the valley would call me in MN, to then contact an engineering manager in CA to get them going, the engineering team's management knew I didn't create false alarms / wouldn't send them into a bad spot flying blind. Now beyond the management bickering I actually got along with those guys, but it was a constant battle of people just not believing that other people could get the job done. They thought they were amazing, but really they had no clue what was outside the valley and a couple other cities. They just assumed about the rest of the world. Meanwhile we also were about 2/3rds the cost and were more productive. Eventually the company was bought again and they cut all the remote offices altogether. After I was laid off, my job went up on the internet, no remote workers (job is back in the valley), computer science degree required, many years experience required. All for a job an ok college grad could do, maybe even less than that, but they just don't belive it.