6 ms·

Agreed. I had a friend in high-school who was very smart, 2-years ahead in math, well-spoken and thoughtful. After some amount of different hallucinogens he be

Agreed. I had a friend in high-school who was very smart, 2-years ahead in math, well-spoken and thoughtful. After some amount of different hallucinogens he became lastingly weird. He would start saying things about "divine geometry" and "seeing yellow auras" when he closed his eyes and became a big believer in all sorts of supernatural (e.g. horoscopes) He did come back to something not too far from normalcy maybe 8 years later, last time I heard from him.

aarpmcgee 8y ago
It's true that these substances can change you. But then it is worth asking, who are you? And is that anything worth holding on to? And what is normalcy, and what exactly is that worth?
- apk-d 8y ago
  I feel like you're trying to derail the discussion by asking random, seemingly unanswerable questions. Normality is a broad but pretty well-researched subject and i think it's safe to say, belief in horoscopes and other unsubstantiated supernatural phenomena ain't it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_(behavior) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_(behavior)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - jonfw 8y ago
    To say that psychedellics cause a deviation from normalcy would be correct. But if you're making that out to be a problem, than you have to support why normalcy is good and deviation from that is bad.
    - alexandercrohde 8y ago
      Totally fair. We shouldn't just assume that "weirdness" is bad because there's a social norm against it. But I for one feel everybody around me finds "weirdness" unbecoming. I find it to be an inescapable reality that people will care about you less and not want to get you for any manner of tiny deviation (e.g. as an extreme example, just if you said "beep" outloud every 10 minutes this would be reason enough for I think half of the population or more to not want to associate with you) In my friends case though, I think what scared me the most was he became very unclear/metaphorical in speaking about even basic topics and didn't seem to realize how much trouble people had understanding him.
      - marssaxman 8y ago
        Sounds like a person in the grip of a big idea, wrapped up in their own thinking. That can be a pain to deal with but it tends to be self-correcting. If someone stops communicating with people effectively, others will withdraw, and that isolation eventually causes pain. Eventually the person who's off in their head will start to notice their needs are not being met, and as they search for a way to return to earth to get what they need, they'll have to do the work themselves to understand others and present their new ideas in a coherent and sensible way. Pulling away from a friend who's talking nonsense can sometimes be the most loving thing to do.
    - apk-d 8y ago
      I feel like some people are (unfortunately, expectedly) overinterpreting my statement as "normal > abnormal" instead of intended "extremely abnormal deserves extreme scepticism". Keep in mind that I'm an avid psychedelics supporter myself. Still, I see no excuse for superstition.
  - BeeOnRope 8y ago
    The first definition in the very first sentence of the article you linked contradicts you. It defines normal behavior as "consistent with the most common behaviour for that person" (emphasis mine). That is, the first definition definitely doesn't depend on other people, but simply what is common for the individual. In that way, "normality" is flexible: if you change your behavior in a consistent way, your new behavior is normal by that definition. You didn't become "abnormal" you simply redefined your normal. Now the article goes on to mention that you could also define this relative to a larger population, etc, which supports your point - but the very fact the headline definitely doesn't align with your claim shows that this is not as straightforward as you make it out to be.
    - apk-d 8y ago
      I don't think making this about definitions brings anything to the discussion. I meant to appeal to common sense. If your friend starts to see magic auras and find other patterns where there clearly aren't any, that's well past the point where you show concern instead of entertaining his worldview.
throwaway031919 8y ago
> "seeing yellow auras" when he closed his eyes I want to demystify this a bit. I don't think it's as unusual as you suggest. I assume you haven't had any substances lately. What do you see when you close your eyes? If you're like I've always been, you see floaters, a few spots of light here and there, maybe a faint "ghost" of the image your eye had seconds before, especially if it was bright. I first noticed that in childhood. In childhood I also noticed that in low light, like in my parents' car in the evening, I would see this light occasionally. I read in some places that this is a possible explanation for when kids complain about seeing monsters in the closet, or similar. As I got older I noticed this sort of thing less. Later I started getting migraines, though, and when I get those symptoms I also see light that isn't there. Sometimes when I have a headache I can see it come in waves when I close my eyes. Later still, I got a little into meditation, and I noticed I could make those perceptions come about by manipulating my breathing. And finally, I did a low dose of psilocybin exactly one time in my life. I saw colors when closing my eyes. It was pretty much the same as all those experiences above, only a little more intense. But you know, we also see faces in clouds. Sometimes we think we spot recognizable objects, then look closer and longer, and they're not there. Our brains are taking shortcuts based on limited data all the time, without drugs. What the drug does, in my layperson's understanding, is make your brain very eager to make these connections. Just as you might see a face in a random, noisy pattern when you're not looking closely, your brain is eager to interpret whatever visual data it gets and run with it. When your brain is deprived of sensory input, such as in darkness or with eyes closed, seemingly it can do this more. I would say about your friend, don't rush to judge them for describing a particular wrinkle of how his brain works. Perhaps they got a little too into talking and thinking about it, or came to the wrong conclusion. But the experience itself is not that remarkable, and happens to sound-minded people all the time.
- comboy 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aura_(symptom) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aura_(symptom)

aarpmcgee 8y ago

It's true that these substances can change you. But then it is worth asking, who are you? And is that anything worth holding on to? And what is normalcy, and what exactly is that worth?

apk-d 8y ago
I feel like you're trying to derail the discussion by asking random, seemingly unanswerable questions. Normality is a broad but pretty well-researched subject and i think it's safe to say, belief in horoscopes and other unsubstantiated supernatural phenomena ain't it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_(behavior) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_(behavior)
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jonfw 8y ago
  To say that psychedellics cause a deviation from normalcy would be correct. But if you're making that out to be a problem, than you have to support why normalcy is good and deviation from that is bad.
  - alexandercrohde 8y ago
    Totally fair. We shouldn't just assume that "weirdness" is bad because there's a social norm against it. But I for one feel everybody around me finds "weirdness" unbecoming. I find it to be an inescapable reality that people will care about you less and not want to get you for any manner of tiny deviation (e.g. as an extreme example, just if you said "beep" outloud every 10 minutes this would be reason enough for I think half of the population or more to not want to associate with you) In my friends case though, I think what scared me the most was he became very unclear/metaphorical in speaking about even basic topics and didn't seem to realize how much trouble people had understanding him.
    - marssaxman 8y ago
      Sounds like a person in the grip of a big idea, wrapped up in their own thinking. That can be a pain to deal with but it tends to be self-correcting. If someone stops communicating with people effectively, others will withdraw, and that isolation eventually causes pain. Eventually the person who's off in their head will start to notice their needs are not being met, and as they search for a way to return to earth to get what they need, they'll have to do the work themselves to understand others and present their new ideas in a coherent and sensible way. Pulling away from a friend who's talking nonsense can sometimes be the most loving thing to do.
  - apk-d 8y ago
    I feel like some people are (unfortunately, expectedly) overinterpreting my statement as "normal > abnormal" instead of intended "extremely abnormal deserves extreme scepticism". Keep in mind that I'm an avid psychedelics supporter myself. Still, I see no excuse for superstition.
- BeeOnRope 8y ago
  The first definition in the very first sentence of the article you linked contradicts you. It defines normal behavior as "consistent with the most common behaviour for that person" (emphasis mine). That is, the first definition definitely doesn't depend on other people, but simply what is common for the individual. In that way, "normality" is flexible: if you change your behavior in a consistent way, your new behavior is normal by that definition. You didn't become "abnormal" you simply redefined your normal. Now the article goes on to mention that you could also define this relative to a larger population, etc, which supports your point - but the very fact the headline definitely doesn't align with your claim shows that this is not as straightforward as you make it out to be.
  - apk-d 8y ago
    I don't think making this about definitions brings anything to the discussion. I meant to appeal to common sense. If your friend starts to see magic auras and find other patterns where there clearly aren't any, that's well past the point where you show concern instead of entertaining his worldview.

throwaway031919 8y ago

> "seeing yellow auras" when he closed his eyes I want to demystify this a bit. I don't think it's as unusual as you suggest. I assume you haven't had any substances lately. What do you see when you close your eyes? If you're like I've always been, you see floaters, a few spots of light here and there, maybe a faint "ghost" of the image your eye had seconds before, especially if it was bright. I first noticed that in childhood. In childhood I also noticed that in low light, like in my parents' car in the evening, I would see this light occasionally. I read in some places that this is a possible explanation for when kids complain about seeing monsters in the closet, or similar. As I got older I noticed this sort of thing less. Later I started getting migraines, though, and when I get those symptoms I also see light that isn't there. Sometimes when I have a headache I can see it come in waves when I close my eyes. Later still, I got a little into meditation, and I noticed I could make those perceptions come about by manipulating my breathing. And finally, I did a low dose of psilocybin exactly one time in my life. I saw colors when closing my eyes. It was pretty much the same as all those experiences above, only a little more intense. But you know, we also see faces in clouds. Sometimes we think we spot recognizable objects, then look closer and longer, and they're not there. Our brains are taking shortcuts based on limited data all the time, without drugs. What the drug does, in my layperson's understanding, is make your brain very eager to make these connections. Just as you might see a face in a random, noisy pattern when you're not looking closely, your brain is eager to interpret whatever visual data it gets and run with it. When your brain is deprived of sensory input, such as in darkness or with eyes closed, seemingly it can do this more. I would say about your friend, don't rush to judge them for describing a particular wrinkle of how his brain works. Perhaps they got a little too into talking and thinking about it, or came to the wrong conclusion. But the experience itself is not that remarkable, and happens to sound-minded people all the time.

comboy 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aura_(symptom) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aura_(symptom)