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Agreed. I think HN in general is too quick to dismiss the potential dangers of psychedelics. I know at least a couple people who have essentially lost their min

Agreed. I think HN in general is too quick to dismiss the potential dangers of psychedelics. I know at least a couple people who have essentially lost their minds as a result of frequent psychedelic use. It's pretty terrifying to see someone slowly become more paranoid delusional and incoherent when they once were an intelligent and charismatic friend.

cgag 8y ago
Yeah, it's definitely a thing. Here's an interesting post about it maybe being due to extremely high "openness" caused by psychs: https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychedelicists-so-weird/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psyched... I suspect this is much more common than anyone realizes: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/06/06/hppd-and-the-specter-of-permanent-side-effects/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/06/06/hppd-and-the-specter-o...
0x8BADF00D 8y ago
There is indeed a very thin line between psychosis and intense religious experiences. It is why in some religions, knowing God will literally burn the mind. I would recommend psychedelics, but like anything, it depends on the person. There are dangers, but those dangers can be controlled quite well. At the population level, it is safer than coffee. At the individual level, it varies, just like anything else. I will note that after taking ~110 μg of LSD-25 on several occasions, my overall cognition improved dramatically.
- ericsoderstrom 8y ago
  In what sense did your cognition improve, and how do you know?
  - 0x8BADF00D 8y ago
    In terms of raw information processing. Focus, perhaps? Prior to taking psychedelics, I would struggle to process information, though I was an avid reader. Recall seems markedly improved too. Again, it is all anecdotal. It is a non-trivial problem to even begin to measure cognition, intelligence, consciousness, etc.
- raducu 8y ago
  You cannot control HPPD.
  - perseusmandate 8y ago
    I have it and you 100% can. I've trained myself to not react to it and it has faded from my perception
    - raducu 8y ago
      I'm sure many people can live with many discomforts, but a lot of people HPPD cannot function as before they had it. I have eye floaters and I can live just fine with them jumping around, still doesn't change the fact they are annoying and if I could get rid of them I would; if they were caused by something I did and I could change that, I would. I'm sure most people with HPPD, if given the choice, would never have done psychedelics in the first place; HPPD is why I stayed away from psychedelics.
simonsaidit 8y ago
You can abuse most things. Ive seen the same with people spending too much time online in strange communities without the drugs. But sure psykedelics breaks down ego and does other changes that from the outside might Seem a little wierd... but at the same time i see most people not being very charismatic and Im a firm believer the world would be a better place if everyone tried it atleast once. The entire world is somewhat delusional.
alexandercrohde 8y ago
Agreed. I had a friend in high-school who was very smart, 2-years ahead in math, well-spoken and thoughtful. After some amount of different hallucinogens he became lastingly weird. He would start saying things about "divine geometry" and "seeing yellow auras" when he closed his eyes and became a big believer in all sorts of supernatural (e.g. horoscopes) He did come back to something not too far from normalcy maybe 8 years later, last time I heard from him.
- aarpmcgee 8y ago
  It's true that these substances can change you. But then it is worth asking, who are you? And is that anything worth holding on to? And what is normalcy, and what exactly is that worth?
  - apk-d 8y ago
    I feel like you're trying to derail the discussion by asking random, seemingly unanswerable questions. Normality is a broad but pretty well-researched subject and i think it's safe to say, belief in horoscopes and other unsubstantiated supernatural phenomena ain't it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_(behavior) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_(behavior)
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - jonfw 8y ago
      To say that psychedellics cause a deviation from normalcy would be correct. But if you're making that out to be a problem, than you have to support why normalcy is good and deviation from that is bad.
      - alexandercrohde 8y ago
        Totally fair. We shouldn't just assume that "weirdness" is bad because there's a social norm against it. But I for one feel everybody around me finds "weirdness" unbecoming. I find it to be an inescapable reality that people will care about you less and not want to get you for any manner of tiny deviation (e.g. as an extreme example, just if you said "beep" outloud every 10 minutes this would be reason enough for I think half of the population or more to not want to associate with you) In my friends case though, I think what scared me the most was he became very unclear/metaphorical in speaking about even basic topics and didn't seem to realize how much trouble people had understanding him.
lpcrealmadrid 8y ago
You can either demolish the brick wall or you can take it apart brick by brick. One of which is overwhelming and can cause collateral damage, the other of which takes longer but accomplishes the same with more safety. My understanding is that many spiritual traditions have historically viewed psychedelics as ego’s way of “grasping” for enlightenment, for many before they are prepared for what they may experience. A “bad trip” can leave someone in a state of confusion that they aren’t quite prepared to deal with.
- HNLurker2 8y ago
  Meditated for many years now and studied theravadin and others. And I still found Radiohead a great "drug": How to dissapear completely - Kid A(made me think of ego death more tangible)
valtism 8y ago
I am sometimes sceptical of this because people experiment with these drugs usually around the same time that latent schizophrenia develops (early-mid 20s in males). I'm sure that they can do damage, and especially create a tipping point for people with a family history, but I'm still not sure how much is just because of the drug and not something that would have developed anyway.

cgag 8y ago

Yeah, it's definitely a thing. Here's an interesting post about it maybe being due to extremely high "openness" caused by psychs: https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychedelicists-so-weird/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psyched... I suspect this is much more common than anyone realizes: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/06/06/hppd-and-the-specter-of-permanent-side-effects/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/06/06/hppd-and-the-specter-o...

0x8BADF00D 8y ago

There is indeed a very thin line between psychosis and intense religious experiences. It is why in some religions, knowing God will literally burn the mind. I would recommend psychedelics, but like anything, it depends on the person. There are dangers, but those dangers can be controlled quite well. At the population level, it is safer than coffee. At the individual level, it varies, just like anything else. I will note that after taking ~110 μg of LSD-25 on several occasions, my overall cognition improved dramatically.

ericsoderstrom 8y ago
In what sense did your cognition improve, and how do you know?
- 0x8BADF00D 8y ago
  In terms of raw information processing. Focus, perhaps? Prior to taking psychedelics, I would struggle to process information, though I was an avid reader. Recall seems markedly improved too. Again, it is all anecdotal. It is a non-trivial problem to even begin to measure cognition, intelligence, consciousness, etc.
raducu 8y ago
You cannot control HPPD.
- perseusmandate 8y ago
  I have it and you 100% can. I've trained myself to not react to it and it has faded from my perception
  - raducu 8y ago
    I'm sure many people can live with many discomforts, but a lot of people HPPD cannot function as before they had it. I have eye floaters and I can live just fine with them jumping around, still doesn't change the fact they are annoying and if I could get rid of them I would; if they were caused by something I did and I could change that, I would. I'm sure most people with HPPD, if given the choice, would never have done psychedelics in the first place; HPPD is why I stayed away from psychedelics.

simonsaidit 8y ago

You can abuse most things. Ive seen the same with people spending too much time online in strange communities without the drugs. But sure psykedelics breaks down ego and does other changes that from the outside might Seem a little wierd... but at the same time i see most people not being very charismatic and Im a firm believer the world would be a better place if everyone tried it atleast once. The entire world is somewhat delusional.

alexandercrohde 8y ago

Agreed. I had a friend in high-school who was very smart, 2-years ahead in math, well-spoken and thoughtful. After some amount of different hallucinogens he became lastingly weird. He would start saying things about "divine geometry" and "seeing yellow auras" when he closed his eyes and became a big believer in all sorts of supernatural (e.g. horoscopes) He did come back to something not too far from normalcy maybe 8 years later, last time I heard from him.

aarpmcgee 8y ago
It's true that these substances can change you. But then it is worth asking, who are you? And is that anything worth holding on to? And what is normalcy, and what exactly is that worth?
- apk-d 8y ago
  I feel like you're trying to derail the discussion by asking random, seemingly unanswerable questions. Normality is a broad but pretty well-researched subject and i think it's safe to say, belief in horoscopes and other unsubstantiated supernatural phenomena ain't it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_(behavior) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_(behavior)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - jonfw 8y ago
    To say that psychedellics cause a deviation from normalcy would be correct. But if you're making that out to be a problem, than you have to support why normalcy is good and deviation from that is bad.
    - alexandercrohde 8y ago
      Totally fair. We shouldn't just assume that "weirdness" is bad because there's a social norm against it. But I for one feel everybody around me finds "weirdness" unbecoming. I find it to be an inescapable reality that people will care about you less and not want to get you for any manner of tiny deviation (e.g. as an extreme example, just if you said "beep" outloud every 10 minutes this would be reason enough for I think half of the population or more to not want to associate with you) In my friends case though, I think what scared me the most was he became very unclear/metaphorical in speaking about even basic topics and didn't seem to realize how much trouble people had understanding him.

lpcrealmadrid 8y ago

You can either demolish the brick wall or you can take it apart brick by brick. One of which is overwhelming and can cause collateral damage, the other of which takes longer but accomplishes the same with more safety. My understanding is that many spiritual traditions have historically viewed psychedelics as ego’s way of “grasping” for enlightenment, for many before they are prepared for what they may experience. A “bad trip” can leave someone in a state of confusion that they aren’t quite prepared to deal with.

HNLurker2 8y ago
Meditated for many years now and studied theravadin and others. And I still found Radiohead a great "drug": How to dissapear completely - Kid A(made me think of ego death more tangible)

valtism 8y ago

I am sometimes sceptical of this because people experiment with these drugs usually around the same time that latent schizophrenia develops (early-mid 20s in males). I'm sure that they can do damage, and especially create a tipping point for people with a family history, but I'm still not sure how much is just because of the drug and not something that would have developed anyway.