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Personally I enjoyed my PhD, but I watched others get hurt, so I wanted to add some words of warning. It's a risky choice, unless you're very good. You should

Personally I enjoyed my PhD, but I watched others get hurt, so I wanted to add some words of warning. It's a risky choice, unless you're very good. You should go in with your eyes open, knowing that you'll be lucky to get an academic job afterwards, especially if you're in a 'pure' field without many applications. For industrial jobs, you'll probably have to re-train through self-study. After a maths phd, doing so may come easily, but it will also take effort. You'll spend three to seven years (dependent on your location and ability) working on an extremely specialised topic. There is no guarantee that you'll finish: circumstances beyond your control like your relationship with your advisor can derail your progress regardless of your ability. There is also a 'point of no return' after a year or two where it becomes very painful to cut your losses and walk away with nothing. Doing a maths PhD could open some interesting doors. It will improve your employability, but it's an inefficient way to do so. The only good reason to do one is that you really like your research topic and want to spend years immersing yourself in it.

graycat 8y ago
Yes, I saw a lot of really good students enter an applied math program when I did. I left with a Ph.D., but nearly all the rest didn't. The flunk out rate was so high that Navy Seal training or Army Ranger training look like fuzzy, bunny play time. The key to my getting my Ph.D. was research, research, and research. The first I did was on a little question that came up in a course. In two weeks I got a surprisingly good answer that was clearly publishable. Later I did publish, no problem, in JOTA. That work gave me a halo in the department and made the rest easier. For my dissertation, I had identified the problem and made good, intuitive progress on it before I entered grad school. In my first summer I turned the intuitive stuff into math, theorems and proofs, wrote an 80 page manuscript, and that was the research for my dissertation. So, I found my own problem, found my own solution, did the work with no direction, and submitted the final work. So, in no meaningful sense did I have any dissertation advisors. So, I didn't have to depend on an advisor.
cadeira 8y ago
This is a good addition. Did you do a PhD in Math as well? My idea is to pursue a PhD in CS, but have a very theoretical bent. I was concerned since essentially I am studying pure math, under the CS department I'd have similar prospects as a Math PhD. But my aim is to set myself up for industry skills upon graduation, so I'll ensure I beef up my software and leetcode skills as Kevin recommended.
- soVeryTired 8y ago
  Mine was CS with a stats twist, yes. Fortunately the stats component put me in good stead for industry work. I'd say TCS and pure math are about equivalent in terms of the career opportunties they offer. Something I forgot to mention: under no circumstances should you self-fund a PhD. Make sure you have a stipend to keep food on the table. Self-funding magnifies the risks I've described tenfold. This is a realistic perspective of what grad school is like in the average-to-bad case. I could identify with parts of it: http://nautil.us/issue/56/perspective/what-does-any-of-this-have-to-do-with-physics-rp http://nautil.us/issue/56/perspective/what-does-any-of-this-...
  - kevinventullo 8y ago
    > under no circumstances should you self-fund a PhD Second this. I was told before starting "If you have to pay to do a PhD you're doing it wrong." This may not apply to fields like Literature, but it most certainly applies to Math and CS.
- andrepd 8y ago
  I am a maths PhD researcher in a CS department, just like you describe. In a few short words, my recommendation would be that you do the PhD for its own sake, not as a tool to get a higher-paying job or to learn for an industry job. If you want the latter, you're better off elsewhere, plus you will probably be miserable in a PhD. Be sure that you get into it for the sake of doing research in a field you like (even though it surely will net you numerous other benefits) because if you don't then you will not enjoy your time and also probably be at a disadvantage compared to not doing a PhD. Myself I'm not particularly worried about maximising income or whatever. I like what I'm studying and researching, and I'm paid enough to live a comfortable life at least for now. I could honestly do this for the rest of my life (which is what an academia career is, I suppose), but if I ever get fed up with it I also know I have loads of doors open everywhere, which is certainly a comforting thought.
  - cadeira 8y ago
    Agreed. I’d be doing the PhD for its own sake.

graycat 8y ago

Yes, I saw a lot of really good students enter an applied math program when I did. I left with a Ph.D., but nearly all the rest didn't. The flunk out rate was so high that Navy Seal training or Army Ranger training look like fuzzy, bunny play time. The key to my getting my Ph.D. was research, research, and research. The first I did was on a little question that came up in a course. In two weeks I got a surprisingly good answer that was clearly publishable. Later I did publish, no problem, in JOTA. That work gave me a halo in the department and made the rest easier. For my dissertation, I had identified the problem and made good, intuitive progress on it before I entered grad school. In my first summer I turned the intuitive stuff into math, theorems and proofs, wrote an 80 page manuscript, and that was the research for my dissertation. So, I found my own problem, found my own solution, did the work with no direction, and submitted the final work. So, in no meaningful sense did I have any dissertation advisors. So, I didn't have to depend on an advisor.

cadeira 8y ago

This is a good addition. Did you do a PhD in Math as well? My idea is to pursue a PhD in CS, but have a very theoretical bent. I was concerned since essentially I am studying pure math, under the CS department I'd have similar prospects as a Math PhD. But my aim is to set myself up for industry skills upon graduation, so I'll ensure I beef up my software and leetcode skills as Kevin recommended.

soVeryTired 8y ago
Mine was CS with a stats twist, yes. Fortunately the stats component put me in good stead for industry work. I'd say TCS and pure math are about equivalent in terms of the career opportunties they offer. Something I forgot to mention: under no circumstances should you self-fund a PhD. Make sure you have a stipend to keep food on the table. Self-funding magnifies the risks I've described tenfold. This is a realistic perspective of what grad school is like in the average-to-bad case. I could identify with parts of it: http://nautil.us/issue/56/perspective/what-does-any-of-this-have-to-do-with-physics-rp http://nautil.us/issue/56/perspective/what-does-any-of-this-...
- kevinventullo 8y ago
  > under no circumstances should you self-fund a PhD Second this. I was told before starting "If you have to pay to do a PhD you're doing it wrong." This may not apply to fields like Literature, but it most certainly applies to Math and CS.
andrepd 8y ago
I am a maths PhD researcher in a CS department, just like you describe. In a few short words, my recommendation would be that you do the PhD for its own sake, not as a tool to get a higher-paying job or to learn for an industry job. If you want the latter, you're better off elsewhere, plus you will probably be miserable in a PhD. Be sure that you get into it for the sake of doing research in a field you like (even though it surely will net you numerous other benefits) because if you don't then you will not enjoy your time and also probably be at a disadvantage compared to not doing a PhD. Myself I'm not particularly worried about maximising income or whatever. I like what I'm studying and researching, and I'm paid enough to live a comfortable life at least for now. I could honestly do this for the rest of my life (which is what an academia career is, I suppose), but if I ever get fed up with it I also know I have loads of doors open everywhere, which is certainly a comforting thought.
- cadeira 8y ago
  Agreed. I’d be doing the PhD for its own sake.