5 ms·

> Buddhists would call it going egoless. I just felt very at peace: we all live, we all die, and it’s all okay. My Mom raised me to feel that this is putting y

> Buddhists would call it going egoless. I just felt very at peace: we all live, we all die, and it’s all okay. My Mom raised me to feel that this is putting yourself outside the picture as a passive observer. I was taught from a very young age to remove myself to this state whenever I felt I couldn't understand the world. The older I get, the more I observe the world and behaviour of people around me, the harder I find it to escape this state, silently watching, observing, trying to understand the chaos that is humanity.

Moodles 8y ago
Do you like being in that state?
- balabaster 8y ago
  Honestly, it can be depressing and confusing. I equate it to being in the mind of a therapist. You're there in the moment, but you're not really there in the moment. You're watching people, thinking about who they are and why they are the way they are, observing behaviour, understanding the nuance of how they interact together. It's interesting. Fascinating even from an academic standpoint. But life isn't academic. The beauty of life can only be experienced if you let yourself experience it. You know that scene where he wants to be put back in the Matrix because ignorance is bliss... yeah, that.
  - Moodles 8y ago
    This is a very different answer to the other one. How interesting.
  - cpeterso 8y ago
    There is a meditation experience called the "Dark Night" where some people are overwhelmed by the dissociative "no self" feelings after meditation. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-dark-knight-of-the-souls/372766/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-dark-...
  - monktastic1 8y ago
    > Honestly, it can be depressing and confusing. ... The beauty of life can only be experienced if you let yourself experience it. It sounds like your state differs in some key ways from what the Buddhists are aiming for. Nirvana isn't meant to be clinical, depressing, or confusing.
    - balabaster 8y ago
      The funny thing about emotions is that they don’t really care what is "meant to be."
      - monktastic1 8y ago
        I agree, but don't understand how this connects to our conversation. All I mean is that there are many interesting and profound states that one can achieve through meditation (or other means), the vast majority of which are not nirvana -- though they may seem to share some surface similarities when described in rough English.
        balabaster 8y ago
        Agreed, sorry, I wasn't meaning to appear to disagree with your statement, rather more suggesting that feelings don't tend to care about any intentional outcome, only what is.
- floatrock 8y ago
  I think if you're asking a question like "do you like it", you're not yet in that state. I'm no expert in meditation or psychedelics, but I get into what I imagine is this state when I, for example, hike the top of a mountain. I can look out at the trees around me and, it's odd, but concerns kinda fade away. Good/bad or good/evil just don't really exist, things just are. You see both the trees and the forest, and you get a sense that these have been here for a long time and will continue to be long after you're gone. So "do you like it" is kinda irrelevant because it's not about a "you"... it's just one long infinite flow. Then it's time to descend and you snap back into your head. /shrug I've also heard astronauts get this a lot and call this the "overview effect" or something like that. Type that into youtube and you'll listen to some people who've been into space talk about it way more eloquently than me, all while streaming earth flybys from that 360-view cupola room on the ISS.
  - balabaster 8y ago
    > "The overview effect" This is perfect... this is exactly it. There aren't any thoughts about whether you like it, it just is.
  - Moodles 8y ago
    > I think if you're asking a question like "do you like it", you're not yet in that state. Haha very true. Most meditates are trying to achieve a particular state, not happy with the state they are currently in ;-) But thanks for answering my real question regardless.
petra 8y ago
While in this state, what kind of thoughts/feelings run through your mind ?
- balabaster 8y ago
  That's really difficult to put into words effectively... I'll try. I'm not aware of any thoughts or feelings while I'm in the moment I'm in that state. It's not about me. It's about everything going on around me. I'm in the mental place of an observer - In that state I'm evaluating everything from an academic standpoint. Self isn't a state I analyze in that moment except from perhaps a diagnostic analysis. If someone were to ask me right in that moment how I feel, I would never be able to truthfully tell them. If you asked me right this second how I feel, I don't have an answer for you - when I'm in diagnostic mode, my emotions are... unavailable, or like trying to divide by zero, undefined.
marssaxman 8y ago
That sounds like dissociation. Many people who use ketamine have talked about similar states of mind.

Moodles 8y ago

Do you like being in that state?

balabaster 8y ago
Honestly, it can be depressing and confusing. I equate it to being in the mind of a therapist. You're there in the moment, but you're not really there in the moment. You're watching people, thinking about who they are and why they are the way they are, observing behaviour, understanding the nuance of how they interact together. It's interesting. Fascinating even from an academic standpoint. But life isn't academic. The beauty of life can only be experienced if you let yourself experience it. You know that scene where he wants to be put back in the Matrix because ignorance is bliss... yeah, that.
- Moodles 8y ago
  This is a very different answer to the other one. How interesting.
- cpeterso 8y ago
  There is a meditation experience called the "Dark Night" where some people are overwhelmed by the dissociative "no self" feelings after meditation. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-dark-knight-of-the-souls/372766/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/the-dark-...
- monktastic1 8y ago
  > Honestly, it can be depressing and confusing. ... The beauty of life can only be experienced if you let yourself experience it. It sounds like your state differs in some key ways from what the Buddhists are aiming for. Nirvana isn't meant to be clinical, depressing, or confusing.
  - balabaster 8y ago
    The funny thing about emotions is that they don’t really care what is "meant to be."
    - monktastic1 8y ago
      I agree, but don't understand how this connects to our conversation. All I mean is that there are many interesting and profound states that one can achieve through meditation (or other means), the vast majority of which are not nirvana -- though they may seem to share some surface similarities when described in rough English.
      - balabaster 8y ago
        Agreed, sorry, I wasn't meaning to appear to disagree with your statement, rather more suggesting that feelings don't tend to care about any intentional outcome, only what is.
floatrock 8y ago
I think if you're asking a question like "do you like it", you're not yet in that state. I'm no expert in meditation or psychedelics, but I get into what I imagine is this state when I, for example, hike the top of a mountain. I can look out at the trees around me and, it's odd, but concerns kinda fade away. Good/bad or good/evil just don't really exist, things just are. You see both the trees and the forest, and you get a sense that these have been here for a long time and will continue to be long after you're gone. So "do you like it" is kinda irrelevant because it's not about a "you"... it's just one long infinite flow. Then it's time to descend and you snap back into your head. /shrug I've also heard astronauts get this a lot and call this the "overview effect" or something like that. Type that into youtube and you'll listen to some people who've been into space talk about it way more eloquently than me, all while streaming earth flybys from that 360-view cupola room on the ISS.
- balabaster 8y ago
  > "The overview effect" This is perfect... this is exactly it. There aren't any thoughts about whether you like it, it just is.
- Moodles 8y ago
  > I think if you're asking a question like "do you like it", you're not yet in that state. Haha very true. Most meditates are trying to achieve a particular state, not happy with the state they are currently in ;-) But thanks for answering my real question regardless.

petra 8y ago

While in this state, what kind of thoughts/feelings run through your mind ?

balabaster 8y ago
That's really difficult to put into words effectively... I'll try. I'm not aware of any thoughts or feelings while I'm in the moment I'm in that state. It's not about me. It's about everything going on around me. I'm in the mental place of an observer - In that state I'm evaluating everything from an academic standpoint. Self isn't a state I analyze in that moment except from perhaps a diagnostic analysis. If someone were to ask me right in that moment how I feel, I would never be able to truthfully tell them. If you asked me right this second how I feel, I don't have an answer for you - when I'm in diagnostic mode, my emotions are... unavailable, or like trying to divide by zero, undefined.

marssaxman 8y ago

That sounds like dissociation. Many people who use ketamine have talked about similar states of mind.