4 ms·

meanwhile European CS students, with their fellow students from the UK, Switzerland, Korea, Japan, [add whatever country you like except the 3 which are - on av

meanwhile European CS students, with their fellow students from the UK, Switzerland, Korea, Japan, [add whatever country you like except the 3 which are - on average - worst than the US in CS) are busy getting even more better than the average CS US student

jhall1468 8y ago
Going to need a citation on that. The US presently dominates the tech sector. Rankings of programs are generally to be taken with a grain of salt, but MIT, Stanford, UCB and Carnegie Mellon all rank the top 4 on almost any list you'll find. Meanwhile, in the UK CS grads have the highest unemployment among any field, and have maintained that "award" for nearly a decade. That certainly indicates that your educational programs for CS are lacking if you didn't go to a school named Oxford or Cambridge. There's a lot of ways you can measure which country has the better educational system for a given degree type, but there's very few metrics that indicate anything other than the EU being way behind the US.
- t_fatus 8y ago
  The point was to illustrate the fact that 'world domination' is a strange word to use when comparing against 3 countries only, leaving aside a lot of well educated students, some of who ranked as the best of their field - for instance korean and french students in ML. Plus the fact that the US dominates the tech sector has more to do with the available capital there than the technical skills of US students (on average)
  - jhall1468 8y ago
    That didn't seem to be the point, since you were implying that EU students are already better and now they are working on getting (to quote you) "more better". Like I said it's hard to quantify educational programs, but China and Russia both dominate competitive programming competitions, and have for years. Whereas EU simply doesn't (outside of occasionally wins by Poland and Czech Republic).
- bialpio 8y ago
  US dominates EU w.r.t. salaries in CS, so they are able to hire top talent. As for other dominance, it's always fun to watch the results of ICPC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Collegiate_Programming_Contest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Collegiate_Progr...
- saberience 8y ago
  "That certainly indicates that your educational programs for CS are lacking if you didn't go to a school named Oxford or Cambridge." lol, you can't judge educational programs by the rate of unemployment! You realize how little sense that makes? The fact that you would even state such a fallacious comment makes me question YOUR educational background. A countries unemployment rate is massively dependent on the economy of the country. You don't say, look at the lack of top tech companies in Russia, it must mean their students are idiots! It has all to do with their governmental policy-making and the sanctions on the country, as well as various historical factors. The UK has been under government "austerity measures" since the 2008/2009 crash which have massively reduced growth across sectors. The UK actually has a great education system but this doesn't matter if the economy is doing badly and jobs aren't being created. In fact (I live in California) from all I've seen of the US CS market, US grads are by far the worst in terms of all the nationalities I work with. The fact that the US tech industry is booming has far more to do with the VC world, the booming economy, and the huge amount of people from around the world moving to California, than it has to do with US schools being good at CS. All the top data scientists at my current company are from China!
  - jhall1468 8y ago
    > The fact that you would even state such a fallacious comment makes me question YOUR educational background. I'd advise you avoid resorting to personal attacks when you disagree with a non-personal statement, as it really does lead to people ignoring your the premise of your point. Personal attacks when calling out fallacious arguments are particularly off-putting. That said, you failed to understand the premise because you took one sentence out of context. The point I was making was that Cambridge and Oxford both have top CS programs which can result in jobs outside the UK and EU. Major tech companies routinely nab graduates from those two universities on work visa's in the US. The importing of UK CS graduates plummets beyond top-tier universities, while China, Russia and India all see massive work visa imports into the US. The UK, outside of Cambridge and Oxford, simply doesn't export a lot of CS graduates, indicating an educational gap (or at the very least, an "interview gap") between those countries and countries with massive work visa exports. > In fact (I live in California) from all I've seen of the US CS market, US grads are by far the worst in terms of all the nationalities I work with. Your anecdata isn't interesting or useful.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  > Meanwhile, in the UK CS grads have the highest unemployment That's because their CS programs graduate a lot of people that can't program.

jhall1468 8y ago

Going to need a citation on that. The US presently dominates the tech sector. Rankings of programs are generally to be taken with a grain of salt, but MIT, Stanford, UCB and Carnegie Mellon all rank the top 4 on almost any list you'll find. Meanwhile, in the UK CS grads have the highest unemployment among any field, and have maintained that "award" for nearly a decade. That certainly indicates that your educational programs for CS are lacking if you didn't go to a school named Oxford or Cambridge. There's a lot of ways you can measure which country has the better educational system for a given degree type, but there's very few metrics that indicate anything other than the EU being way behind the US.

t_fatus 8y ago
The point was to illustrate the fact that 'world domination' is a strange word to use when comparing against 3 countries only, leaving aside a lot of well educated students, some of who ranked as the best of their field - for instance korean and french students in ML. Plus the fact that the US dominates the tech sector has more to do with the available capital there than the technical skills of US students (on average)
- jhall1468 8y ago
  That didn't seem to be the point, since you were implying that EU students are already better and now they are working on getting (to quote you) "more better". Like I said it's hard to quantify educational programs, but China and Russia both dominate competitive programming competitions, and have for years. Whereas EU simply doesn't (outside of occasionally wins by Poland and Czech Republic).
bialpio 8y ago
US dominates EU w.r.t. salaries in CS, so they are able to hire top talent. As for other dominance, it's always fun to watch the results of ICPC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Collegiate_Programming_Contest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Collegiate_Progr...
saberience 8y ago
"That certainly indicates that your educational programs for CS are lacking if you didn't go to a school named Oxford or Cambridge." lol, you can't judge educational programs by the rate of unemployment! You realize how little sense that makes? The fact that you would even state such a fallacious comment makes me question YOUR educational background. A countries unemployment rate is massively dependent on the economy of the country. You don't say, look at the lack of top tech companies in Russia, it must mean their students are idiots! It has all to do with their governmental policy-making and the sanctions on the country, as well as various historical factors. The UK has been under government "austerity measures" since the 2008/2009 crash which have massively reduced growth across sectors. The UK actually has a great education system but this doesn't matter if the economy is doing badly and jobs aren't being created. In fact (I live in California) from all I've seen of the US CS market, US grads are by far the worst in terms of all the nationalities I work with. The fact that the US tech industry is booming has far more to do with the VC world, the booming economy, and the huge amount of people from around the world moving to California, than it has to do with US schools being good at CS. All the top data scientists at my current company are from China!
- jhall1468 8y ago
  > The fact that you would even state such a fallacious comment makes me question YOUR educational background. I'd advise you avoid resorting to personal attacks when you disagree with a non-personal statement, as it really does lead to people ignoring your the premise of your point. Personal attacks when calling out fallacious arguments are particularly off-putting. That said, you failed to understand the premise because you took one sentence out of context. The point I was making was that Cambridge and Oxford both have top CS programs which can result in jobs outside the UK and EU. Major tech companies routinely nab graduates from those two universities on work visa's in the US. The importing of UK CS graduates plummets beyond top-tier universities, while China, Russia and India all see massive work visa imports into the US. The UK, outside of Cambridge and Oxford, simply doesn't export a lot of CS graduates, indicating an educational gap (or at the very least, an "interview gap") between those countries and countries with massive work visa exports. > In fact (I live in California) from all I've seen of the US CS market, US grads are by far the worst in terms of all the nationalities I work with. Your anecdata isn't interesting or useful.
SamReidHughes 8y ago
> Meanwhile, in the UK CS grads have the highest unemployment That's because their CS programs graduate a lot of people that can't program.