5 ms·

The alternative to google play would presumably be the apple app store which, if they ban you, there is no side channel. If your desire is to build a mobile ap

by ses1984 8y ago

The alternative to google play would presumably be the apple app store which, if they ban you, there is no side channel. If your desire is to build a mobile app, you don't really have a lot of options.

simonh 8y ago
True that. It's the blessing and curse of app stores. On iOS everyone complains there's only one App Store. On Android everyone complains the vendors and networks keep pre-loading their multifarious crappy app stores. People, eh?
- kevinventullo 8y ago
  The pre-loading doesn't bother me as much as them making it impossible to delete this bloatware without rooting the phone.
  - magduf 8y ago
    Yeah, exactly. I honestly wouldn't care much if they preloaded a bunch of crap so they can get kickbacks (which would probably translate to a slightly lower-priced phone, due to all the competition in the Android phone market), as long as I could just go delete it like any other app.
  - vetinari 8y ago
    By rooting and deleting apps , or any other modification of the /system partition, you are making it impossible to apply any patch released by the manufacturer (it is a binary delta of the volume). Consider disabling the apps; if the manufacturer doesn't allow disabling the app through Settings, you can always do it via adb. When you disable the app, the system will ignore it and behave as if it wouldn't be there. You can't get any additional benefit from the deleting, you won't gain any additional free space, as no app can write to /system partition for the above reason anyway.
- AnthonyMouse 8y ago
  Maybe the problem is the tight coupling. An app store is really many things. It's client software for installing apps, it's a service for verifying apps, it's a hosting service for apps, it's a payment processor. If you want to replace any piece of it you currently have to replace the whole thing, and do so all at once. Even if you create a good alternative app store, it has few apps in it, which matters if it's a separate client/interface than the main one. And you have to replicate every piece of it well for it to be any good. So what's needed is better modularity. You don't have an "Amazon app store app", you just have a "software installer" app that shows all apps from enabled providers and then lists individual apps as "verified by Google", "verified by Amazon", etc. in the same software. When you buy one you get a list of enabled payment processors and choose "pay with Google" or "pay with Paypal" or "pay with Visa" etc. (the list being all the ones that the app developer accepts). Then you can put your app in Google Play and let them do everything, or you can host it yourself and pay a verification service that charges a one time fee rather than a percentage and accept five different payment services but only the ones that charge less than a 5% commission, and either way it's not a significantly different experience for the user. And whether or not Google would join in on something like that, at least Amazon/Samsung/F-Droid could do it with each other (and anyone else who shows up).
  - derefr 8y ago
    The thing you're ignoring is developer reputation. Google (or any app-store runner) doesn't want to allow you to use parts of their service—for which they could be held liable if those services take your money and give you nothing in return, or give you a virus—unless you're also using their identity system and thus their developer-reputation system. And if you are using Google's identity system—in what way are you not just back to publishing on the Play Store? Through the identity system (and associated developer-reputation system) they can control who can or cannot publish on your app store. So it's really just their app store. It's your UX, but it's their guiding hand, just as if Google were on your board of directors. Really, there's no point in them letting you have your own app store which relies on parts of their infrastructure, since they can tell that any implementation their legal dept would okay is a lose-lose that no dev would ever be interested in taking part in. To detach any liability for the results from them, you have to do it all the app-store stuff yourself. Which is exactly what mobile OEMs do.
CharlesW 8y ago
> The alternative to google play would presumably be the apple app store which, if they ban you, there is no side channel. It depends on what you mean by "side channel". You can do a PWA instead, or use tools like Test Flight (up to 10,000 users), or leverage the Apple Developer Enterprise Program, etc.
- coldacid 8y ago
  Unless or until Apple bans your account, at which point you can't even deploy to your own phone anymore.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

simonh 8y ago

True that. It's the blessing and curse of app stores. On iOS everyone complains there's only one App Store. On Android everyone complains the vendors and networks keep pre-loading their multifarious crappy app stores. People, eh?

kevinventullo 8y ago
The pre-loading doesn't bother me as much as them making it impossible to delete this bloatware without rooting the phone.
- magduf 8y ago
  Yeah, exactly. I honestly wouldn't care much if they preloaded a bunch of crap so they can get kickbacks (which would probably translate to a slightly lower-priced phone, due to all the competition in the Android phone market), as long as I could just go delete it like any other app.
- vetinari 8y ago
  By rooting and deleting apps , or any other modification of the /system partition, you are making it impossible to apply any patch released by the manufacturer (it is a binary delta of the volume). Consider disabling the apps; if the manufacturer doesn't allow disabling the app through Settings, you can always do it via adb. When you disable the app, the system will ignore it and behave as if it wouldn't be there. You can't get any additional benefit from the deleting, you won't gain any additional free space, as no app can write to /system partition for the above reason anyway.
AnthonyMouse 8y ago
Maybe the problem is the tight coupling. An app store is really many things. It's client software for installing apps, it's a service for verifying apps, it's a hosting service for apps, it's a payment processor. If you want to replace any piece of it you currently have to replace the whole thing, and do so all at once. Even if you create a good alternative app store, it has few apps in it, which matters if it's a separate client/interface than the main one. And you have to replicate every piece of it well for it to be any good. So what's needed is better modularity. You don't have an "Amazon app store app", you just have a "software installer" app that shows all apps from enabled providers and then lists individual apps as "verified by Google", "verified by Amazon", etc. in the same software. When you buy one you get a list of enabled payment processors and choose "pay with Google" or "pay with Paypal" or "pay with Visa" etc. (the list being all the ones that the app developer accepts). Then you can put your app in Google Play and let them do everything, or you can host it yourself and pay a verification service that charges a one time fee rather than a percentage and accept five different payment services but only the ones that charge less than a 5% commission, and either way it's not a significantly different experience for the user. And whether or not Google would join in on something like that, at least Amazon/Samsung/F-Droid could do it with each other (and anyone else who shows up).
- derefr 8y ago
  The thing you're ignoring is developer reputation. Google (or any app-store runner) doesn't want to allow you to use parts of their service—for which they could be held liable if those services take your money and give you nothing in return, or give you a virus—unless you're also using their identity system and thus their developer-reputation system. And if you are using Google's identity system—in what way are you not just back to publishing on the Play Store? Through the identity system (and associated developer-reputation system) they can control who can or cannot publish on your app store. So it's really just their app store. It's your UX, but it's their guiding hand, just as if Google were on your board of directors. Really, there's no point in them letting you have your own app store which relies on parts of their infrastructure, since they can tell that any implementation their legal dept would okay is a lose-lose that no dev would ever be interested in taking part in. To detach any liability for the results from them, you have to do it all the app-store stuff yourself. Which is exactly what mobile OEMs do.

CharlesW 8y ago

> The alternative to google play would presumably be the apple app store which, if they ban you, there is no side channel. It depends on what you mean by "side channel". You can do a PWA instead, or use tools like Test Flight (up to 10,000 users), or leverage the Apple Developer Enterprise Program, etc.

coldacid 8y ago
Unless or until Apple bans your account, at which point you can't even deploy to your own phone anymore.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]