6 ms·

Ech at least on android you can easily install apps outside of google play. _I_ find it scary to make business with as you can be pretty much _snapped_ out of e

Ech at least on android you can easily install apps outside of google play. _I_ find it scary to make business with as you can be pretty much _snapped_ out of existance in a single decision.

simonh 8y ago
I don't really follow the argument. If you are a commercial company, the Play store is pretty much all that matters in terms of business viability. At a commercial level, the fact a few geeks can side-load apps is next to irrelevant. Who builds a business on side-loaded apps?
- Conan_Kudo 8y ago
  Epic Games, apparently.
  - majewsky 8y ago
    And whatever the Amazon Fire devices use as an app store.
    - Kye 8y ago
      Amazon runs its own app store. It took years even with their resources to make it useful. Developers originally tossed up buggy, incomplete, and/or outdated versions of their Android apps just to say they had one on Kindle Fire.
  - dingaling 8y ago
    And WhatsApp, direct download on their website
- ses1984 8y ago
  The alternative to google play would presumably be the apple app store which, if they ban you, there is no side channel. If your desire is to build a mobile app, you don't really have a lot of options.
  - simonh 8y ago
    True that. It's the blessing and curse of app stores. On iOS everyone complains there's only one App Store. On Android everyone complains the vendors and networks keep pre-loading their multifarious crappy app stores. People, eh?
    - kevinventullo 8y ago
      The pre-loading doesn't bother me as much as them making it impossible to delete this bloatware without rooting the phone.
      - magduf 8y ago
        Yeah, exactly. I honestly wouldn't care much if they preloaded a bunch of crap so they can get kickbacks (which would probably translate to a slightly lower-priced phone, due to all the competition in the Android phone market), as long as I could just go delete it like any other app.
      - vetinari 8y ago
        By rooting and deleting apps , or any other modification of the /system partition, you are making it impossible to apply any patch released by the manufacturer (it is a binary delta of the volume). Consider disabling the apps; if the manufacturer doesn't allow disabling the app through Settings, you can always do it via adb. When you disable the app, the system will ignore it and behave as if it wouldn't be there. You can't get any additional benefit from the deleting, you won't gain any additional free space, as no app can write to /system partition for the above reason anyway.
    - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
      Maybe the problem is the tight coupling. An app store is really many things. It's client software for installing apps, it's a service for verifying apps, it's a hosting service for apps, it's a payment processor. If you want to replace any piece of it you currently have to replace the whole thing, and do so all at once. Even if you create a good alternative app store, it has few apps in it, which matters if it's a separate client/interface than the main one. And you have to replicate every piece of it well for it to be any good. So what's needed is better modularity. You don't have an "Amazon app store app", you just have a "software installer" app that shows all apps from enabled providers and then lists individual apps as "verified by Google", "verified by Amazon", etc. in the same software. When you buy one you get a list of enabled payment processors and choose "pay with Google" or "pay with Paypal" or "pay with Visa" etc. (the list being all the ones that the app developer accepts). Then you can put your app in Google Play and let them do everything, or you can host it yourself and pay a verification service that charges a one time fee rather than a percentage and accept five different payment services but only the ones that charge less than a 5% commission, and either way it's not a significantly different experience for the user. And whether or not Google would join in on something like that, at least Amazon/Samsung/F-Droid could do it with each other (and anyone else who shows up).
- kop316 8y ago
  I actually would wish more companies had a repository that was compatible with F-Droid. F-Droid makes.it possible for anyone to make a repository and then it will handle all of the app store side of the house.
- skolsuper 8y ago
  It's very common in rural Asia. Users share apks via P2P file sharing. Typically one person in the village will set up everyone's phone for them. Usually with all apps preloaded, but they're actually quite savvy about adding and removing apps once they get going, since they're on phones with such low internal storage. If you want to make it into these markets, you need to make your app side-loadable
  - travisgriggs 8y ago
    But is that a model that producers can build a business on?
    - magduf 8y ago
      With a few billion people in Asia, probably.
- meditate 8y ago
  A lot of companies do. I've actually found it's pretty difficult to get mobile apps deployed inside bigger companies WITHOUT delivering a custom build that enterprise IT rolls out on their own, even on iOS.
  - noir_lord 8y ago
    We do because we have android hand scanners for the production areas and handhelds for the drivers, side loading is the simplest way to get stuff onto them.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- lern_too_spel 8y ago
  > Who builds a business on side-loaded apps? Epic Games. https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/07/fortnite-hits-15-million-installs-on-android/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/07/fortnite-hits-15-million-i...
- qwerty456127 8y ago
  > a few geeks can side-load apps Do you mean being able to click a link on the app author's website and press "allow" makes you an elite sort of geek?

Ech at least on android you can easily install apps outside of google play. _I_ find it scary to make business with as you can be pretty much _snapped_ out of existance in a single decision.

simonh 8y ago

I don't really follow the argument. If you are a commercial company, the Play store is pretty much all that matters in terms of business viability. At a commercial level, the fact a few geeks can side-load apps is next to irrelevant. Who builds a business on side-loaded apps?

Conan_Kudo 8y ago
Epic Games, apparently.
- majewsky 8y ago
  And whatever the Amazon Fire devices use as an app store.
  - Kye 8y ago
    Amazon runs its own app store. It took years even with their resources to make it useful. Developers originally tossed up buggy, incomplete, and/or outdated versions of their Android apps just to say they had one on Kindle Fire.
- dingaling 8y ago
  And WhatsApp, direct download on their website
ses1984 8y ago
The alternative to google play would presumably be the apple app store which, if they ban you, there is no side channel. If your desire is to build a mobile app, you don't really have a lot of options.
- simonh 8y ago
  True that. It's the blessing and curse of app stores. On iOS everyone complains there's only one App Store. On Android everyone complains the vendors and networks keep pre-loading their multifarious crappy app stores. People, eh?
  - kevinventullo 8y ago
    The pre-loading doesn't bother me as much as them making it impossible to delete this bloatware without rooting the phone.
    - magduf 8y ago
      Yeah, exactly. I honestly wouldn't care much if they preloaded a bunch of crap so they can get kickbacks (which would probably translate to a slightly lower-priced phone, due to all the competition in the Android phone market), as long as I could just go delete it like any other app.
    - vetinari 8y ago
      By rooting and deleting apps , or any other modification of the /system partition, you are making it impossible to apply any patch released by the manufacturer (it is a binary delta of the volume). Consider disabling the apps; if the manufacturer doesn't allow disabling the app through Settings, you can always do it via adb. When you disable the app, the system will ignore it and behave as if it wouldn't be there. You can't get any additional benefit from the deleting, you won't gain any additional free space, as no app can write to /system partition for the above reason anyway.
  - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
    Maybe the problem is the tight coupling. An app store is really many things. It's client software for installing apps, it's a service for verifying apps, it's a hosting service for apps, it's a payment processor. If you want to replace any piece of it you currently have to replace the whole thing, and do so all at once. Even if you create a good alternative app store, it has few apps in it, which matters if it's a separate client/interface than the main one. And you have to replicate every piece of it well for it to be any good. So what's needed is better modularity. You don't have an "Amazon app store app", you just have a "software installer" app that shows all apps from enabled providers and then lists individual apps as "verified by Google", "verified by Amazon", etc. in the same software. When you buy one you get a list of enabled payment processors and choose "pay with Google" or "pay with Paypal" or "pay with Visa" etc. (the list being all the ones that the app developer accepts). Then you can put your app in Google Play and let them do everything, or you can host it yourself and pay a verification service that charges a one time fee rather than a percentage and accept five different payment services but only the ones that charge less than a 5% commission, and either way it's not a significantly different experience for the user. And whether or not Google would join in on something like that, at least Amazon/Samsung/F-Droid could do it with each other (and anyone else who shows up).
kop316 8y ago
I actually would wish more companies had a repository that was compatible with F-Droid. F-Droid makes.it possible for anyone to make a repository and then it will handle all of the app store side of the house.
skolsuper 8y ago
It's very common in rural Asia. Users share apks via P2P file sharing. Typically one person in the village will set up everyone's phone for them. Usually with all apps preloaded, but they're actually quite savvy about adding and removing apps once they get going, since they're on phones with such low internal storage. If you want to make it into these markets, you need to make your app side-loadable
- travisgriggs 8y ago
  But is that a model that producers can build a business on?
  - magduf 8y ago
    With a few billion people in Asia, probably.
meditate 8y ago
A lot of companies do. I've actually found it's pretty difficult to get mobile apps deployed inside bigger companies WITHOUT delivering a custom build that enterprise IT rolls out on their own, even on iOS.
- noir_lord 8y ago
  We do because we have android hand scanners for the production areas and handhelds for the drivers, side loading is the simplest way to get stuff onto them.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
lern_too_spel 8y ago
> Who builds a business on side-loaded apps? Epic Games. https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/07/fortnite-hits-15-million-installs-on-android/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/07/fortnite-hits-15-million-i...
qwerty456127 8y ago
> a few geeks can side-load apps Do you mean being able to click a link on the app author's website and press "allow" makes you an elite sort of geek?