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Personally I view this as bad news for the Android ecosystem. The iOS/iTunes ecosystem is incredibly accessible. You don't need a credit card (important for mi

by cletus 16y ago

Personally I view this as bad news for the Android ecosystem. The iOS/iTunes ecosystem is incredibly accessible. You don't need a credit card (important for minors; a huge market). You can buy credit everywhere. iOS users seem willing to part with cash. Google Checkout on the other hand is not available everywhere Android is. People seem less willing to use it (eg 50k paid from this post). You can't buy credit in the retail chain. Google gives developers 95%. The last one is actually a huge problem. Google's 5% will never pay for retail distribution (Apple's 30% clearly does). Developers have come to the obvious conclusion: they'd rather have 70% of (potentially) a lot rather than 95% of much less. iOS has the option of paid and ad-supported. Android only having ad-supported (realistically) is a major disadvantage. The only way Abgry Birds could make it to Android is on the back of the success of iOS. I wonder how much money their experiment is really making.

yequalsx 16y ago
The problem with Google Checkout compared to PayPal is that only people with a Checkout account can buy from places that require Checkout. It's not the job of a vendor to get their customers to sign up with Checkout. It's hard enough to get the to agree to buy something. That extra hurdle is just too much.
- teilo 16y ago
  When you buy from Apple, you buy using Apple's checkout process. Why ever would anyone think that Android would use anything but Google's checkout process?
  - Xuzz 16y ago
    Because Android is the "open" system, and Apple is the "closed" one?
  - yequalsx 16y ago
    You're right but there is a subtle difference. iPads and iPods require the use of iTunes which pretty much requires an account. You have to do this in order to use the devices. Apple pretty much has a system that once you are using their devices you've got an account. So when a user is searching for apps they've already got an account. There is no extra hurdle at that stage.
- confuzatron 16y ago
  PayPal? Are you kidding me? Using PayPal is like pulling teeth.
alex_c 16y ago
A minor point: outside the US, Android prices are listed as (some examples from featured apps): ~CA$1.96 ~CA$5.08 ~CA$3.05 ~CA$1.01 It's completely irrational, but I actually find myself less willing to buy for "untidy" prices. I didn't fully understand why Apple has its tiered pricing system, but now I do.
- darshan 16y ago
  That's relatively new, but I was glad when they changed it. To be clear, it's not "outside the US", that's Canada -- the point is that prices are now listed in local currency, including in the US. Back to the point: while I'm pretty comfortable with translating Canadian dollars, British Pounds, or Euros to US dollars, that's about as much as I can do in my head. I'm much happier seeing ~US$1.17 than ¥99, and I'm much more likely to buy the app. So while I can see your point, I think it was definitely a change for the better, and it probably resulted in increased sales.
  - wzdd 16y ago
    I think the point was that iOS apps have a set of fixed prices in each area (in local currency). Here in the UK the cheapest non-free app is 59p (corresponding with a 99c app in the US store), the next is £1.19 ($1.99), and so on. This makes for a better user experience because people can think in terms of the price brackets. Here is a summary of the price brackets: http://www.mcmnet.co.uk/news/the-app-store-explained-news http://www.mcmnet.co.uk/news/the-app-store-explained-news
- StavrosK 16y ago
  Huh, that's odd. My algorithm is "if x < 5: buy()". Presumably the apps I want to buy are all apps I need, so less than $5 is quite well into the "no brainer" category.
orangecat 16y ago
Google gives developers 95%. Not according to my Google account, it's the same 70% as Apple. Although I have heard that Google gives most of their 30% share to mobile carriers, which troubles me; I really don't like the user-hostile carriers profiting from my work. Android only having ad-supported (realistically) That's not the case at all. With zero marketing my paid app makes in the high hundreds of dollars per month (after Google's cut), which from my understanding is much better than the median iOS app. Yes, there are plenty of things Google should be doing better with the market, but it's far from impossible to make decent money with paid apps. I wonder how much money their experiment is really making. Apparently enough to continue development.
grantheaslip 16y ago
I'm not 100% sure this is still the case, but I recall not being able to buy apps on iTunes using gift card credit a year or two back. I got the impression it had something to do with the way that software is taxed in Canada (Ontario specifically)—music and gift cards weren't taxed, but apps were. So as far as I'm aware, you do need a credit card to buy apps, at least in Ontario.
dagw 16y ago
Google checkout is the thing keeping me from buying apps. I've been close to buying apps a few times, but then I have to go through the hassle of setting up a Google checkout account on my phone and decide that it's not worth it just for some app. What Google really should to if they want to get people buying apps is to make a deal with the carriers so that apps I buy show up on my phone bill. If they did that then there would be no barrier at all for anyone to buying apps and I no doubt would have bought several by now.
- darshan 16y ago
  1) You don't have to set up Google Checkout on your phone, you can do it from any computer with a browser and web access. (Your phone is already associated with your Google account, so once your Google account has Google Checkout details set up, you're good to go.) 2) Carrier billing was enabled for T-Mobile several months ago. My understanding is that it will be coming to other carriers as well.
  - StavrosK 16y ago
    I second the first point. When I got my Android phone, all I had to do to buy an app is press "buy" and then "confirm". No credit cards or anything, it was already set up.
- Tichy 16y ago
  Isn't the only thing you have to do to enter your credit card? I did it recently to buy one app, and I don't remember it to be especially painful or complicated.
Tichy 16y ago
I think you could probably just create some random numbers, put them on cards (for example at moo.com, or something like a scratchcard) and sell them in a shop. Then set your Android app in such a way that to unlock the non-demo version, you have to enter the code from a scratchcard.
- uxp 16y ago
  I really don't want to come across as a troll or mean, but I don't know how to word this in any way that probably will not. Did you even think about the logistics of your comment? Apple is able to sell iTunes cards in retail stores because they operate the store that the cards are redeemed at. The monetary value of the card does not change from the price I pay for it at my local grocery store and the amount I am able to redeem from the online store. I can buy that card and buy any app with the value of that card. If a third party was to create a similar system for Android it would be horribly broken. I don't even want to give any scenarios because there are thousands to describe how unmanageable and frustrating any system would end up being for end-users, from activation codes being incompatible between apps to apps not having redeeming capabilities built into them. Google would have to start its own system to deal with store credits. I would rather they start fixing the problems developers have been complaining about for a while than try to implement additional features in an already un-polished (broken, dare I say?) system.
  - Tichy 16y ago
    I was just saying. Besides, it is not so inconceivable to take money for processing the cards - credit card companies do so all the time. Also I think prepaid credit cards exist (not sure how exactly they work, though). Furthermore, who said it should work for the whole Android store?

by cletus 16y ago

yequalsx 16y ago

The problem with Google Checkout compared to PayPal is that only people with a Checkout account can buy from places that require Checkout. It's not the job of a vendor to get their customers to sign up with Checkout. It's hard enough to get the to agree to buy something. That extra hurdle is just too much.

teilo 16y ago
When you buy from Apple, you buy using Apple's checkout process. Why ever would anyone think that Android would use anything but Google's checkout process?
- Xuzz 16y ago
  Because Android is the "open" system, and Apple is the "closed" one?
- yequalsx 16y ago
  You're right but there is a subtle difference. iPads and iPods require the use of iTunes which pretty much requires an account. You have to do this in order to use the devices. Apple pretty much has a system that once you are using their devices you've got an account. So when a user is searching for apps they've already got an account. There is no extra hurdle at that stage.
confuzatron 16y ago
PayPal? Are you kidding me? Using PayPal is like pulling teeth.

alex_c 16y ago

A minor point: outside the US, Android prices are listed as (some examples from featured apps): ~CA$1.96 ~CA$5.08 ~CA$3.05 ~CA$1.01 It's completely irrational, but I actually find myself less willing to buy for "untidy" prices. I didn't fully understand why Apple has its tiered pricing system, but now I do.

darshan 16y ago
That's relatively new, but I was glad when they changed it. To be clear, it's not "outside the US", that's Canada -- the point is that prices are now listed in local currency, including in the US. Back to the point: while I'm pretty comfortable with translating Canadian dollars, British Pounds, or Euros to US dollars, that's about as much as I can do in my head. I'm much happier seeing ~US$1.17 than ¥99, and I'm much more likely to buy the app. So while I can see your point, I think it was definitely a change for the better, and it probably resulted in increased sales.
- wzdd 16y ago
  I think the point was that iOS apps have a set of fixed prices in each area (in local currency). Here in the UK the cheapest non-free app is 59p (corresponding with a 99c app in the US store), the next is £1.19 ($1.99), and so on. This makes for a better user experience because people can think in terms of the price brackets. Here is a summary of the price brackets: http://www.mcmnet.co.uk/news/the-app-store-explained-news http://www.mcmnet.co.uk/news/the-app-store-explained-news
StavrosK 16y ago
Huh, that's odd. My algorithm is "if x < 5: buy()". Presumably the apps I want to buy are all apps I need, so less than $5 is quite well into the "no brainer" category.

orangecat 16y ago

Google gives developers 95%. Not according to my Google account, it's the same 70% as Apple. Although I have heard that Google gives most of their 30% share to mobile carriers, which troubles me; I really don't like the user-hostile carriers profiting from my work. Android only having ad-supported (realistically) That's not the case at all. With zero marketing my paid app makes in the high hundreds of dollars per month (after Google's cut), which from my understanding is much better than the median iOS app. Yes, there are plenty of things Google should be doing better with the market, but it's far from impossible to make decent money with paid apps. I wonder how much money their experiment is really making. Apparently enough to continue development.

grantheaslip 16y ago

I'm not 100% sure this is still the case, but I recall not being able to buy apps on iTunes using gift card credit a year or two back. I got the impression it had something to do with the way that software is taxed in Canada (Ontario specifically)—music and gift cards weren't taxed, but apps were. So as far as I'm aware, you do need a credit card to buy apps, at least in Ontario.

dagw 16y ago

Google checkout is the thing keeping me from buying apps. I've been close to buying apps a few times, but then I have to go through the hassle of setting up a Google checkout account on my phone and decide that it's not worth it just for some app. What Google really should to if they want to get people buying apps is to make a deal with the carriers so that apps I buy show up on my phone bill. If they did that then there would be no barrier at all for anyone to buying apps and I no doubt would have bought several by now.

darshan 16y ago
1) You don't have to set up Google Checkout on your phone, you can do it from any computer with a browser and web access. (Your phone is already associated with your Google account, so once your Google account has Google Checkout details set up, you're good to go.) 2) Carrier billing was enabled for T-Mobile several months ago. My understanding is that it will be coming to other carriers as well.
- StavrosK 16y ago
  I second the first point. When I got my Android phone, all I had to do to buy an app is press "buy" and then "confirm". No credit cards or anything, it was already set up.
Tichy 16y ago
Isn't the only thing you have to do to enter your credit card? I did it recently to buy one app, and I don't remember it to be especially painful or complicated.

Tichy 16y ago

I think you could probably just create some random numbers, put them on cards (for example at moo.com, or something like a scratchcard) and sell them in a shop. Then set your Android app in such a way that to unlock the non-demo version, you have to enter the code from a scratchcard.

uxp 16y ago
I really don't want to come across as a troll or mean, but I don't know how to word this in any way that probably will not. Did you even think about the logistics of your comment? Apple is able to sell iTunes cards in retail stores because they operate the store that the cards are redeemed at. The monetary value of the card does not change from the price I pay for it at my local grocery store and the amount I am able to redeem from the online store. I can buy that card and buy any app with the value of that card. If a third party was to create a similar system for Android it would be horribly broken. I don't even want to give any scenarios because there are thousands to describe how unmanageable and frustrating any system would end up being for end-users, from activation codes being incompatible between apps to apps not having redeeming capabilities built into them. Google would have to start its own system to deal with store credits. I would rather they start fixing the problems developers have been complaining about for a while than try to implement additional features in an already un-polished (broken, dare I say?) system.
- Tichy 16y ago
  I was just saying. Besides, it is not so inconceivable to take money for processing the cards - credit card companies do so all the time. Also I think prepaid credit cards exist (not sure how exactly they work, though). Furthermore, who said it should work for the whole Android store?