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I have to completely agree with this blog post. I'm a sysadmin living in a world of developers and what I'm being shown is nothing new. I think there are a lot

by chuhnk 16y ago

I have to completely agree with this blog post. I'm a sysadmin living in a world of developers and what I'm being shown is nothing new. I think there are a lot of companies in which dev and ops is split to such a degree that the devops movement becomes relevant in aiding them to bring together both sides, but for the rest of us we've seen it and done it. I agree with the author, there's a lot of condescension coming across. I am open to learning and refining the processes by which we all collaborate and work but I'm not a layman. I understand my field and enough of yours to keep systems running in the evenings, middle of the night and times when you are not around to look at bugs. I understand the scaling problems. I understand the need for continuous integration testing and deployment systems. We are the league of sys admins. We know what we are doing.

mmt 16y ago
Hear hear. Personally, I find the whole devops notion a bit bizarre, since, from what I can tell, the theme is one of two. One is trying to make sysadmins into programmers (or hybrid programmers/sysadmins). This may be the one-way street the blogger is referring to. I could be a programmer if I wanted to, but that's not what brings me joy. There's a reason I've been a sysadmin for my entire career, and it's not some deficiency (i.e. I'm not a layman). The other is, to my mind, just wishing for better sysadmins. Sadly, I don't think there are enough of us who do know what we're doing, not to the depth you describe. Much of this may be for lack of experience and/or mentorship: they haven't seen it and done it. when I cut my teeth on sysadmin work in the late 17th century, ops guys drew a line in the sand This comment was the revealing one to me. Its inference belies long experience. My own start at the profession was in 1988, though, arguably, not in an environment with software developers until '92. Not only did we[1] not put artificial limits on our responsibilities, but I had to fight a couple battles to keep developers from running roughshod over a shared environment made stable through my concerted efforts. Agreed: We are the league of sysadmins. We know what we are doing. I would only add: Not all problems are best solved by more code. [1] originally just me, but then a total of three of us in that environment
- nicferrier 16y ago
  devops makes so much sense to me because it's what I've been doing my whole career. The trouble is with the devops movement, as the blog says, the old tools and processes are sometimes still relevant. Sysadmins in that category 2 from the first comment need to be persuaded that a lot of their old skills are absolutely still usable. The example from the article, of bash scripts getting version controlled is a really good one I think. And of course, sysadmins have a wealth of experience to bring to the way development is done. It wouldn't hurt if a few more developers learned bash and the different levels of RAID.

by chuhnk 16y ago

mmt 16y ago

Hear hear. Personally, I find the whole devops notion a bit bizarre, since, from what I can tell, the theme is one of two. One is trying to make sysadmins into programmers (or hybrid programmers/sysadmins). This may be the one-way street the blogger is referring to. I could be a programmer if I wanted to, but that's not what brings me joy. There's a reason I've been a sysadmin for my entire career, and it's not some deficiency (i.e. I'm not a layman). The other is, to my mind, just wishing for better sysadmins. Sadly, I don't think there are enough of us who do know what we're doing, not to the depth you describe. Much of this may be for lack of experience and/or mentorship: they haven't seen it and done it. when I cut my teeth on sysadmin work in the late 17th century, ops guys drew a line in the sand This comment was the revealing one to me. Its inference belies long experience. My own start at the profession was in 1988, though, arguably, not in an environment with software developers until '92. Not only did we[1] not put artificial limits on our responsibilities, but I had to fight a couple battles to keep developers from running roughshod over a shared environment made stable through my concerted efforts. Agreed: We are the league of sysadmins. We know what we are doing. I would only add: Not all problems are best solved by more code. [1] originally just me, but then a total of three of us in that environment

nicferrier 16y ago
devops makes so much sense to me because it's what I've been doing my whole career. The trouble is with the devops movement, as the blog says, the old tools and processes are sometimes still relevant. Sysadmins in that category 2 from the first comment need to be persuaded that a lot of their old skills are absolutely still usable. The example from the article, of bash scripts getting version controlled is a really good one I think. And of course, sysadmins have a wealth of experience to bring to the way development is done. It wouldn't hurt if a few more developers learned bash and the different levels of RAID.