5 ms·

It's insane how many really, really, good people we lose to tragedies like this... 9/11 took away one of the founders of Akamai(the CDN company). Even the rece

by vtange 8y ago

It's insane how many really, really, good people we lose to tragedies like this... 9/11 took away one of the founders of Akamai(the CDN company). Even the recent 737 crash took away some really accomplished people from humanity. It's a constant reminder of the fragility of life and how easily one can lose a loved one or oneself these days.

pjc50 8y ago
This kind of thing is why the "NPC" meme and other dehumanizing language is so dangerous. Everyone is a person with a story, achievements, fears, and family. Often really surprising.
- spamizbad 8y ago
  That meme never registered as problematic to me (at least by meme standards) but you’re correct. I always felt it outed its creators as lacking theory of mind; why does a large group of people have different shared beliefs than me? They must lack the ability to think independently like everyone else in my cliquey subculture!
  - epicureanideal 8y ago
    But let's acknowledge the truth that there are plenty of people who really don't think critically. Certainly some people will label others as "not thinking critically" when they really just think differently, but let's agree the former category does exist, and it's not a small population.
    - spamizbad 8y ago
      But most people do think critically. Have you considered this phenomenon to simply be shared or group cognition (also something nearly everyone experiences), rather than a lack of critical thinking skills?
      - epicureanideal 8y ago
        I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about most people thinking critically. I don't have anything other than personal experience to justify my position and a quick Google search wasn't able to turn up any convincing studies. Group cognition (from a quick skim of a Wikipedia article about it) doesn't seem to justify lack of individual critical thinking though. It seems to be more like a term to describe a process, like "memes" and "idea viruses". It doesn't substitute for individual critical thinking.
- epicureanideal 8y ago
  I don't think of the NPC meme as especially harmful. Although I don't propagate this meme, I think it's an interesting way of poking fun at people who truly don't think critically about their opinions and sort of absorb opinions by osmosis from the media. I think a strategy of poking fun at people who don't think critically might be one of several possibly useful ways to change that trend. The NPC meme also seems like a possibly useful way to psychologically deal with the fact that there are many people whose minds simply cannot be changed no matter how rationally you try to explain your perspective. As with any idea, the danger is in misapplication. For example, if someone simply stops trying to change others' minds when it's really still possible but the NPC meme causes them to ignore that possibility, then it doesn't help improve the world. Or if a misguided individual who doesn't distinguish meme from reality uses it to dehumanize people in their mind, then that's a problem.
- hpe8fq 8y ago
  The NPC meme is not about dehumanisation. It's about mocking people with no critical thinking which just parrot what they hear. Nothing more.
- ltmnnggr 8y ago
  Dehumanization like being labeled a racist or white supremacist for supporting a certain president?
- 0x8BADF00D 8y ago
  Everyone is a person with a story, but living life with that awareness is unnecessarily burdensome. Self-awareness is more important than the awareness of others’ stories. Obsession with other people’s life stories leads to hero worship and constant comparison with them, making you unhappy because you couldn’t check off as many checkboxes as them. This is another form of unhealthy thinking, the inverse of narcissism.
  - ngcc_hk 8y ago
    What is unnecsssry? What is obsession? Any contradiction between self aware and be empathy with your human life live sane time as you. You can live a life that concern only yourselves. Yes! Life is impermanent, obsessive with oneself and pain is everywhere. As a branch of Buddhism would said. You can also note if that is so all religion and all givernment can disappear as love thy Neigbour, be empathy and still with the world instead of going to nirvana himself, many governments are bad but anarchy may not be good either. No one sure what is the best approach for one life. But what you said seems odd. May those died live in peace now. Let the living continue. We will continue do evil and good thing. Choose. Every seconds of it. That is life. RIP ultimately we all know.
eridius 8y ago
It's insane how many people we lose to tragedies like this. Every person is valuable. We shouldn't just lament the loss of people with notable accomplishments. We should mourn every single person, and do what we can to prevent this from happening again.
- alexandre_m 8y ago
  "Every person is valuable" That's a truism, no one would deny that. But stories make a larger impact and are most valuable when you hear these tragic events. Otherwise all you're left with is number of death counts, which brings far less consideration for distant people, sadly.
  - benj111 8y ago
    I think a good point is raised about why this guy. There were 50 people that all had lives, but we picked on the tech guy. It ends up feeling mildly disrespectful. Like we aren't remembering this guy because of his achievements, we're remembering him because of how he died, and now he's been reduced to his achievements. I don't know. You could make a case that people in the community knew him, so it makes sense to remember him. Maybe its 'good' that he had any positive achievements worthy of note at all. Most deaths don't warrant even a footnote.
    - krapp 8y ago
      >There were 50 people that all had lives, but we picked on the tech guy. It ends up feeling mildly disrespectful. Let's be realistic - there being a "tech guy" is the only reason this story is on topic. Hacker News is not supposed to be a place to discuss mainstream events, however tragic they may be, or the deaths of people not relevant to the tech community.
      - eridius 8y ago
        My comment wasn't complaining about HN focusing on the tech guy. It was specifically a response to the sentiment > It's insane how many really, really, good people we lose to tragedies like this A story about the tech guy is a reason to be on HN. But statements like the above just serve to trivialize the deaths of those not deemed "really good people".
coldtea 8y ago
>Even the recent 737 crash took away some really accomplished people from humanity And some less accomplished, if those matter at all...

by vtange 8y ago

pjc50 8y ago

This kind of thing is why the "NPC" meme and other dehumanizing language is so dangerous. Everyone is a person with a story, achievements, fears, and family. Often really surprising.

spamizbad 8y ago
That meme never registered as problematic to me (at least by meme standards) but you’re correct. I always felt it outed its creators as lacking theory of mind; why does a large group of people have different shared beliefs than me? They must lack the ability to think independently like everyone else in my cliquey subculture!
- epicureanideal 8y ago
  But let's acknowledge the truth that there are plenty of people who really don't think critically. Certainly some people will label others as "not thinking critically" when they really just think differently, but let's agree the former category does exist, and it's not a small population.
  - spamizbad 8y ago
    But most people do think critically. Have you considered this phenomenon to simply be shared or group cognition (also something nearly everyone experiences), rather than a lack of critical thinking skills?
    - epicureanideal 8y ago
      I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about most people thinking critically. I don't have anything other than personal experience to justify my position and a quick Google search wasn't able to turn up any convincing studies. Group cognition (from a quick skim of a Wikipedia article about it) doesn't seem to justify lack of individual critical thinking though. It seems to be more like a term to describe a process, like "memes" and "idea viruses". It doesn't substitute for individual critical thinking.
epicureanideal 8y ago
I don't think of the NPC meme as especially harmful. Although I don't propagate this meme, I think it's an interesting way of poking fun at people who truly don't think critically about their opinions and sort of absorb opinions by osmosis from the media. I think a strategy of poking fun at people who don't think critically might be one of several possibly useful ways to change that trend. The NPC meme also seems like a possibly useful way to psychologically deal with the fact that there are many people whose minds simply cannot be changed no matter how rationally you try to explain your perspective. As with any idea, the danger is in misapplication. For example, if someone simply stops trying to change others' minds when it's really still possible but the NPC meme causes them to ignore that possibility, then it doesn't help improve the world. Or if a misguided individual who doesn't distinguish meme from reality uses it to dehumanize people in their mind, then that's a problem.
hpe8fq 8y ago
The NPC meme is not about dehumanisation. It's about mocking people with no critical thinking which just parrot what they hear. Nothing more.
ltmnnggr 8y ago
Dehumanization like being labeled a racist or white supremacist for supporting a certain president?
0x8BADF00D 8y ago
Everyone is a person with a story, but living life with that awareness is unnecessarily burdensome. Self-awareness is more important than the awareness of others’ stories. Obsession with other people’s life stories leads to hero worship and constant comparison with them, making you unhappy because you couldn’t check off as many checkboxes as them. This is another form of unhealthy thinking, the inverse of narcissism.
- ngcc_hk 8y ago
  What is unnecsssry? What is obsession? Any contradiction between self aware and be empathy with your human life live sane time as you. You can live a life that concern only yourselves. Yes! Life is impermanent, obsessive with oneself and pain is everywhere. As a branch of Buddhism would said. You can also note if that is so all religion and all givernment can disappear as love thy Neigbour, be empathy and still with the world instead of going to nirvana himself, many governments are bad but anarchy may not be good either. No one sure what is the best approach for one life. But what you said seems odd. May those died live in peace now. Let the living continue. We will continue do evil and good thing. Choose. Every seconds of it. That is life. RIP ultimately we all know.

eridius 8y ago

It's insane how many people we lose to tragedies like this. Every person is valuable. We shouldn't just lament the loss of people with notable accomplishments. We should mourn every single person, and do what we can to prevent this from happening again.

alexandre_m 8y ago
"Every person is valuable" That's a truism, no one would deny that. But stories make a larger impact and are most valuable when you hear these tragic events. Otherwise all you're left with is number of death counts, which brings far less consideration for distant people, sadly.
- benj111 8y ago
  I think a good point is raised about why this guy. There were 50 people that all had lives, but we picked on the tech guy. It ends up feeling mildly disrespectful. Like we aren't remembering this guy because of his achievements, we're remembering him because of how he died, and now he's been reduced to his achievements. I don't know. You could make a case that people in the community knew him, so it makes sense to remember him. Maybe its 'good' that he had any positive achievements worthy of note at all. Most deaths don't warrant even a footnote.
  - krapp 8y ago
    >There were 50 people that all had lives, but we picked on the tech guy. It ends up feeling mildly disrespectful. Let's be realistic - there being a "tech guy" is the only reason this story is on topic. Hacker News is not supposed to be a place to discuss mainstream events, however tragic they may be, or the deaths of people not relevant to the tech community.
    - eridius 8y ago
      My comment wasn't complaining about HN focusing on the tech guy. It was specifically a response to the sentiment > It's insane how many really, really, good people we lose to tragedies like this A story about the tech guy is a reason to be on HN. But statements like the above just serve to trivialize the deaths of those not deemed "really good people".

coldtea 8y ago

>Even the recent 737 crash took away some really accomplished people from humanity And some less accomplished, if those matter at all...