4 ms·

> where expats can return to without incurring a major loss in QOL or effective wages. I’m moving back to India soon (NYC -> Mumbai). My quality of life will l

by olcor 8y ago

> where expats can return to without incurring a major loss in QOL or effective wages. I’m moving back to India soon (NYC -> Mumbai). My quality of life will likely increase; wages will not even be close (savings rate might be the same though). Which cities are on your mind for this?

selfselfself 8y ago
In 2014-2015, if you were a PM / SR PM at Amazon/Google/FB and moved to Bangalore, you would've gotten a Director (at large tech companies) or VP role (at mature startups) easily and would've made the about the same comp as you were making the US. Not sure what the situation is now.
baybal2 8y ago
This is a bit like mine rationality of going to China. Any income above $3k gives you a lifestyle you can't imagine in any Western tech hub, but more importantly ability and talent is more important here (don't laugh.) In overall, the industry is in better shape here, and the tech scene is not just a stock/bond market extension yet. I'm not a Western nation national, so for me, going to the West again (I lived in Canada for 6 years,) will involve going through visa troubles, and be looked upon like on an idiot by every official for the duration of my stay. And not to say, you will have that "cheap labourer" stigma on you.
anticodon 8y ago
Quality of life is not only income. It's also infrastructure, environment, many other things. I had only briefly visited Mumbai, but visited many big cities in India. They're extremely noisy, congested, air quality is poor. Power and Internet outages are frequent. There no parks in most Asian cities so if you're tired and want to relax in a quiet place under the trees you should drive for hours out of the city.
- olcor 8y ago
  Exactly; quality of life isn't income (if that was the case, I wouldn't be bothering to move). It's all you say; it's also food you're used to, the people around you, family ties, the freedom to have multiple income streams without your visa blocking you, and also the lack of worry that you'll be thrown out of the country. There is a tradeoff I am making, and weirdly India is better off in it. I will miss the good air and the incredible work environment in the States, but apart from that, Mumbai can offer everything else (not many power outages from what I know, I grew up there), and quite frankly, I like the bustle.
  - anticodon 8y ago
    Fully agree. I also hate obtaining visas and other bureaucratic issues, worrying if you'll obtain the visa next year, not being able to speak your own language when you want to relax and hang up with the friends, etc.
- alphagrep12345 8y ago
  I feel 90% of the quality issues can be handled by being more proactive. Stay at a community with good trees, buy only organic, drink only mineral water, etc.
  - anticodon 8y ago
    Yes, every problem has a solution but a solution also has a cost. For example, you may return back to India from Western country and try to keep the same level of income, but you'll find out soon that a community with good trees is more expensive compared to the same quality of life in the West. Asia can be cheap, but if you want the same quality of life, same level of education, etc, it actually cost more than in the West. I currently live and work in Cambodia and education here is extremely expensive, maybe more expensive than in Singapore. But quality of the education... I don't want to describe it because I'll be probably banned if I tried to describe it.
screye 8y ago
People are going to say Bangalore, but Bangalore today is pain in the ass to stay in. It has all the problems that India already faces (density, unsanitary conditions, rising pollution) and outdoes almost all other big cities on commutes. Easily the worst traffic in the country. It does have a great tech industry and weather though. If I had to go back, I would go to Mumbai (Western Suburbs or South Bombay), because that's where I grew up. Also, the new metro and road projects have potential to solve transportation in India. (though completion is maybe 10 yrs away) _______________ I personally, meant townships like Lavasa (or what it was intended to be. It became a holiday home / Indian cape cod instead). A place where the city could be designed from ground up, and some of the common problems of every Indian city would be avoided by design. They are much cleaner with better air and urban design. It legitimately feels like you are in a developed country. Some photos: https://image3.mouthshut.com/images/Restaurant/Photo/-66070_7620.jpg https://image3.mouthshut.com/images/Restaurant/Photo/-66070_... https://magnificentmaharashtra.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/gis-map-of-lavasa.jpeg https://magnificentmaharashtra.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/g... IMO, Nagpur would have been well positioned to become that, had it not had such terrible weather. It has decent amenities, excellent educational institutions (IIIT, NIT, IIM, AIIMS), Good public transport (with the metro and new roads), a new SEZ, a new airport and doesn't have any other major negatives. Gurgaon's cyber-city and Noida were other totally botched attempts at this. Terribly bloated, copied the worst aspects of American urban design and left zero opportunities for any organic growth of culture in the area. I can see Goa with BITS's presence, the weather and cosmopolitan nature being well poised for such a development. However, unlike Nagpur I've yet to see any attempt being made to urbanize that region. Navi Mumbai and Powai had a similar opportunities to build themselves from the ground up, but both have become more natural suburbs of Mumbai rather than entities in and of themselves. ________________

by olcor 8y ago

selfselfself 8y ago

In 2014-2015, if you were a PM / SR PM at Amazon/Google/FB and moved to Bangalore, you would've gotten a Director (at large tech companies) or VP role (at mature startups) easily and would've made the about the same comp as you were making the US. Not sure what the situation is now.

baybal2 8y ago

This is a bit like mine rationality of going to China. Any income above $3k gives you a lifestyle you can't imagine in any Western tech hub, but more importantly ability and talent is more important here (don't laugh.) In overall, the industry is in better shape here, and the tech scene is not just a stock/bond market extension yet. I'm not a Western nation national, so for me, going to the West again (I lived in Canada for 6 years,) will involve going through visa troubles, and be looked upon like on an idiot by every official for the duration of my stay. And not to say, you will have that "cheap labourer" stigma on you.

anticodon 8y ago

Quality of life is not only income. It's also infrastructure, environment, many other things. I had only briefly visited Mumbai, but visited many big cities in India. They're extremely noisy, congested, air quality is poor. Power and Internet outages are frequent. There no parks in most Asian cities so if you're tired and want to relax in a quiet place under the trees you should drive for hours out of the city.

olcor 8y ago
Exactly; quality of life isn't income (if that was the case, I wouldn't be bothering to move). It's all you say; it's also food you're used to, the people around you, family ties, the freedom to have multiple income streams without your visa blocking you, and also the lack of worry that you'll be thrown out of the country. There is a tradeoff I am making, and weirdly India is better off in it. I will miss the good air and the incredible work environment in the States, but apart from that, Mumbai can offer everything else (not many power outages from what I know, I grew up there), and quite frankly, I like the bustle.
- anticodon 8y ago
  Fully agree. I also hate obtaining visas and other bureaucratic issues, worrying if you'll obtain the visa next year, not being able to speak your own language when you want to relax and hang up with the friends, etc.
alphagrep12345 8y ago
I feel 90% of the quality issues can be handled by being more proactive. Stay at a community with good trees, buy only organic, drink only mineral water, etc.
- anticodon 8y ago
  Yes, every problem has a solution but a solution also has a cost. For example, you may return back to India from Western country and try to keep the same level of income, but you'll find out soon that a community with good trees is more expensive compared to the same quality of life in the West. Asia can be cheap, but if you want the same quality of life, same level of education, etc, it actually cost more than in the West. I currently live and work in Cambodia and education here is extremely expensive, maybe more expensive than in Singapore. But quality of the education... I don't want to describe it because I'll be probably banned if I tried to describe it.

screye 8y ago

People are going to say Bangalore, but Bangalore today is pain in the ass to stay in. It has all the problems that India already faces (density, unsanitary conditions, rising pollution) and outdoes almost all other big cities on commutes. Easily the worst traffic in the country. It does have a great tech industry and weather though. If I had to go back, I would go to Mumbai (Western Suburbs or South Bombay), because that's where I grew up. Also, the new metro and road projects have potential to solve transportation in India. (though completion is maybe 10 yrs away) _______________ I personally, meant townships like Lavasa (or what it was intended to be. It became a holiday home / Indian cape cod instead). A place where the city could be designed from ground up, and some of the common problems of every Indian city would be avoided by design. They are much cleaner with better air and urban design. It legitimately feels like you are in a developed country. Some photos: https://image3.mouthshut.com/images/Restaurant/Photo/-66070_7620.jpg https://image3.mouthshut.com/images/Restaurant/Photo/-66070_... https://magnificentmaharashtra.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/gis-map-of-lavasa.jpeg https://magnificentmaharashtra.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/g... IMO, Nagpur would have been well positioned to become that, had it not had such terrible weather. It has decent amenities, excellent educational institutions (IIIT, NIT, IIM, AIIMS), Good public transport (with the metro and new roads), a new SEZ, a new airport and doesn't have any other major negatives. Gurgaon's cyber-city and Noida were other totally botched attempts at this. Terribly bloated, copied the worst aspects of American urban design and left zero opportunities for any organic growth of culture in the area. I can see Goa with BITS's presence, the weather and cosmopolitan nature being well poised for such a development. However, unlike Nagpur I've yet to see any attempt being made to urbanize that region. Navi Mumbai and Powai had a similar opportunities to build themselves from the ground up, but both have become more natural suburbs of Mumbai rather than entities in and of themselves. ________________