2 ms·

Replying here since we ran out of room down below: Compared to this Nature article, Ataturk was very direct. Read these quotes that I found using 3 seconds of

Replying here since we ran out of room down below: Compared to this Nature article, Ataturk was very direct. Read these quotes that I found using 3 seconds of difficult googling, and then decide on what side of the debate he would land. "I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men" [1] "It is known by the world that, in our state administration, our main program is the Republican People's Party program. The principles it covers are the main lines that illuminate us in management and politics. But these principles should never be held equal to the dogmas of books that are assumed to have descended from the sky. We have received our inspirations directly from life, not from sky or unseen." [2] -------------------------- [1] Quoted in Atatürk: The Biography of the Founder of Modern Turkey, by Andrew Mango; "In a book published in 1928, Grace Ellison quotes [Atatürk], presumably in 1926-27", Grace Ellison Turkey Today (London: Hutchinson, 1928) [2] Atatürk'ün Türkiye Büyük Millet Meclisi'nin V. Dönem 3. Yasama Yılını Açış Konuşmaları (in Turkish). "... Dünyaca bilinmektedir ki, bizim devlet yönetimimizdeki ana programımız, Cumhuriyet Halk Partisi programıdır. Bunun kapsadığı prensipler, yönetimde ve politikada bizi aydınlatıcı ana çizgilerdir. Fakat bu prensipleri, gökten indiği sanılan kitapların doğmalarıyla asla bir tutmamalıdır. Biz, ilhamlarımızı, gökten ve gaipten değil, doğrudan doğruya yaşamdan almış bulunuyoruz."

identity-haver 8y ago
This is fair, and not inconsistent with other public speeches I've found, which mention the failures of "Pan-Islamism" and spurn the idea of a caliphate. So I think I was off base about Ataturk. He was also a hardcore nationalist by any modern standard, which helps a lot when trying to get people in a nation to do stuff. I still think that, in the US at least, sneering at religion or defining it against science is a terrible way to further science. There are really 2 types of "religious" people in the US [1], the "USA #1 + God" group, and the "church every week" type. These need to be approached a bit differently, I think. The first group's opinions really fall into the existing political polarization issues more than any explicitly faith-based concern. In both cases, understanding and using the groups' language would help a lot to communicate science. [1] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/29/religious-typology-overview/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/29/religious-ty...

identity-haver 8y ago

This is fair, and not inconsistent with other public speeches I've found, which mention the failures of "Pan-Islamism" and spurn the idea of a caliphate. So I think I was off base about Ataturk. He was also a hardcore nationalist by any modern standard, which helps a lot when trying to get people in a nation to do stuff. I still think that, in the US at least, sneering at religion or defining it against science is a terrible way to further science. There are really 2 types of "religious" people in the US [1], the "USA #1 + God" group, and the "church every week" type. These need to be approached a bit differently, I think. The first group's opinions really fall into the existing political polarization issues more than any explicitly faith-based concern. In both cases, understanding and using the groups' language would help a lot to communicate science. [1] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/29/religious-typology-overview/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/29/religious-ty...