6 ms·

Here in the US, we recently moved into a new house (rural) and my broadband wasn't setup yet, so I needed a temporary solution to continue working from home. S

Here in the US, we recently moved into a new house (rural) and my broadband wasn't setup yet, so I needed a temporary solution to continue working from home. So, I headed off to the mall to compare mobile AP plans. Literally every option was either mega expensive (think multiple hundreds of dollars per month for 100 GB or the price was right but the service area was crap). A lot of the mobile data plans actually only apply to direct usage from your phone. Not when using it as an AP (tethering). Those all have separate bandwidth limits. The standard amount on most plans (that you also have to pay extra for) is around 10 gigabytes. And, I didn't even find a normal consumer plan from ATT / Verizon (the only carriers with good service here) that let you buy more than that. You have to buy a super expensive business plan. So yeah, fuck US LTE data plans. Absolute garbage if you actually try to use it for any serious work from a PC.

toby 8y ago
Any reason you didn't consider Google Fi? I've been pretty happy with it.
- gerbal 8y ago
  Google Fi a virtual operator using T Mobile towers. T Mobile's coverage is excellent in cities, but pretty bad in rural areas.
  - toby 8y ago
    It switches between Sprint and T-Mobile, not sure if that makes a difference, I guess it depends where you are
    - magduf 8y ago
      Sprint is really bad outside cities too. Sprint and T-Mobile are the two worst operators if you're concerned about signal quality outside metro areas.
      - int_19h 8y ago
        Individually, perhaps, but when you put them together, it closes quite a few gaps. In practice, when I switched to Fi, I got more coverage in places where AT&T's was really bad. Google Fi can also do cellular over WiFi if your phone supports it.
        joecool1029 8y ago
        I have a device with Sprint. If I run into an area where my primary T-Mobile phones don't get service, they'll do voWiFi using the Sprint connection. Google Voice now supports data calling as well, so you can have same end result of WiFi calling even if your carrier or phone will not do voWiFi. I don't see the appeal of Fi at all.
        int_19h 8y ago
        For me, the biggest appeal of Fi is that you pay the same data rates when travelling in other countries. The second biggest is the ability to have up to 5 data SIMs associated with the same account, with identical rates and no extra fees.
        joecool1029 8y ago
        I don't pay for data in other countries. It's throttled unless I buy a day pass. For longer stays I usually buy a cheap local SIM and sign into Google Voice and DIGITS for free calling and number portability. So you have data SIMs that share from the same pool? I use a few hundred GB's per month. How much would this cost on Fi? I currently have 4 unlimited SIM's, a extra voip number, and a low speed SIM with one of my line numbers copied. It costs about $160/mo. If I run into an area where I don't have service, I have a second provider that's also unlimited and costs $4/mo.
      - joecool1029 8y ago
        Historically T-Mobile was terrible. They now have native roaming on US Cellular and band 12 (700mhz) and band 71 (600mhz) lowband coverage. This covered a lot of the gaps. Sprint is weird, since they really only have halfassed voLTE they rely on a giant legacy CDMA network that should have been put out to pasture 5 years ago. But they do have the largest number of roaming agreements if all you care about is ability to call (and not have data). They do have fast data but it requires you to be in line of sight of a tower, not have walls or wet leaves in the way, and have a phone supporting HPUA so you can actually upload things. AT&T's network has basically zero investment in recent years, unless in Georgia or a handful of other markets it's the worst of the 4. Poor spectrum planning, low capex, the only reason they are #2 is because they keep buying up companies with customers (shitty Mexican carriers and DirecTV). Verizon still seems best (hardware, spectrum planning, roadmap, coverage), but no plans ideal for my needs. Poor for travel.
  - pilom 8y ago
    T-mobile's bad coverage reputation is undeserved today. They are easily on par with AT&T _IF_ your phone supports their 700MHz band.
    - AlphaSite 8y ago
      My experience differs significantly from yours, having moved from att to T-Mobile in the last 3 months.
  - bubblethink 8y ago
    Google Fi does not even qualify as an operator really. It is not a standard that any device can implement. It is only implemented by google's blob. You can use google-fi as a regular network if you hardcode to one operator, but the switching stuff needs a blob.
- int_19h 8y ago
  It's not exactly cheap at $10/Gb.
vasco 8y ago
Can the ISP detect if you're using it as an AP?
- the_pwner224 8y ago
  If you use the stock ROM then they probably can. A fey years ago the carriers would put proprietary hotspot apps on your phone which would integrate with their billing system, but if you switched to another ROM you could just use the built-in Android hotspot option and it would work just fine. With an AOSP ROM like LineageOS they can't detect it from the phone itself, but there are still some differences in the packets that a phone would send vs the packets a computer would send (you can Google about how to hide tethering on T-Mobile and find some discussion on that); it's not very hard to change your settings to avoid that method of detection.
  - firmgently 8y ago
    This probably refers to TTL, which can be easily changed to disguise the 'hop' from your device to your phone... but Deep Packet Inspection is apparently commonly used nowadays too. To get around that you need to be encrypting with a VPN or similar setup. This is my simplistic understanding of the state of play based on the last time I looked into it but as mentioned above it's easy to Google.
    - dzhiurgis 8y ago
      How do you fix the TTL trick?
      - gsich 8y ago
        You set the default TTL in your OS to +=1.
      - joecool1029 8y ago
        on the AP (phone): iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -j TTL --ttl-set 65 You will need TTL target built into the kernel of the ROM you are using. LineageOS is unwilling to do it officially, so I build my own with it enabled. It's a good idea to only use ipv4 when doing this. A few services are detected on TMUS, so for those VPN. Sprint doesn't seem to care, but they have a patent on TTL detection too from around 10 years ago. I normally do not VPN, but I do use my own DNS since I don't like carrier hijacking.
rascul 8y ago
It's not a data plan, but I'm using straight talk's $55 "unlimited" plan. Supposedly I'll get throttled or whatever after 50GB or so based on congestion, but I'm generally over 100GB just from tethering and I've never been throttled. Not sure what network they use, I think Verizon. Might be an option to consider if you haven't yet.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
maverick5 8y ago
My folks were nearly burned out in the Paradise Camp Fire (there's no visible structures around them). They went with a satellite-only broadband provider because it would've taken another 1-2 months from now to get POTS telephone restored (they would be the only customer on the street).
syntaxing 8y ago
I know T-mobile has some coverage issues but their phone plan has free phone tethering. I think its capped at 3G speed but works great for typical laptop usage.
mindslight 8y ago
> A lot of the mobile data plans actually only apply to direct usage from your phone. Not when using it as an AP (tethering). Not to take away from the larger point about US data plans, which is generally true. But the fundamental market philosophy of the US is to exploit individuals' laziness. If you're unwilling to do the basic modern necessity of taking control of your phone, then you perfectly fit the profile to be their victim. If you're just walking into a carrier store/kiosk and asking them what they overtly market, you basically have "$$$" written on your forehead. Practically - if I needed an LTE connection, I'd setup a fixed antenna aimed at a Sprint tower on a Clearwire-settlement plan, look into buying a grandfathered Mobley device on eBay, or accept a slightly lower speed for a consumer "unlimited data" plan (eg $55/mo for 3Mbps at Cricket).
- socialist_coder 8y ago
  I'm really glad you made this comment because you're actually totally right. I am a very competent developer. I should just figure out how to get tethering setup outside their mobile hotspot limits so it looks like phone data. Looks like I should be able to do it with this from my Apple device: https://github.com/rickyzhang82/tethering/wiki https://github.com/rickyzhang82/tethering/wiki
pilom 8y ago
Good plans come up semi frequently, you just need to know where to look. I worked from an RV full time for 2 years using only cell plans and I was pretty happy with the plans I had. I still use my Verizon Grandfathered Unlimited plan for home internet and routinely use >100GB/month for $80/month. That plus an AT&T connected car plan with unlimited data for $25/month and I am set. I spent a lot of time following https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/ https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/ before pulling the trigger on plans.
- casefields 8y ago
  It's pretty crazy to think I've been using the same data plan for well over a decade but that Verizon grandfathered unlimited really is worth it. Some months I don't use much but others I can go well into the hundreds and hundreds of GB without breaking a sweat.
andy_adams 8y ago
> Absolute garbage if you actually try to use it for any serious work from a PC. I beg to differ - I have 2 hotspots from Verizon (15GB each -> 30GB total/month) and they support my full-time work as a remote developer. I have to avoid watching HD video, but that's effectively the only restriction I have.
turtlebits 8y ago
I have 2 phones, one on Sprint's Free year plan - which I have yet to see throttle, even with tethering. My other phone is in Mint SIM, which costs $20/mo for 8gb of LTE and works great, and tethering is shared with regular data.
- xchaotic 8y ago
  How is 8GB/mo LTE a good deal? Theoretically you should be able to use your allowance in minutes (or it's not really LTE)
atomical 8y ago
I used around a terabyte one month on T-Mobile's unlimited plan. I think at the time I paid around $90.

toby 8y ago

Any reason you didn't consider Google Fi? I've been pretty happy with it.

gerbal 8y ago
Google Fi a virtual operator using T Mobile towers. T Mobile's coverage is excellent in cities, but pretty bad in rural areas.
- toby 8y ago
  It switches between Sprint and T-Mobile, not sure if that makes a difference, I guess it depends where you are
  - magduf 8y ago
    Sprint is really bad outside cities too. Sprint and T-Mobile are the two worst operators if you're concerned about signal quality outside metro areas.
    - int_19h 8y ago
      Individually, perhaps, but when you put them together, it closes quite a few gaps. In practice, when I switched to Fi, I got more coverage in places where AT&T's was really bad. Google Fi can also do cellular over WiFi if your phone supports it.
      - joecool1029 8y ago
        I have a device with Sprint. If I run into an area where my primary T-Mobile phones don't get service, they'll do voWiFi using the Sprint connection. Google Voice now supports data calling as well, so you can have same end result of WiFi calling even if your carrier or phone will not do voWiFi. I don't see the appeal of Fi at all.
        int_19h 8y ago
        For me, the biggest appeal of Fi is that you pay the same data rates when travelling in other countries. The second biggest is the ability to have up to 5 data SIMs associated with the same account, with identical rates and no extra fees.
        joecool1029 8y ago
        I don't pay for data in other countries. It's throttled unless I buy a day pass. For longer stays I usually buy a cheap local SIM and sign into Google Voice and DIGITS for free calling and number portability. So you have data SIMs that share from the same pool? I use a few hundred GB's per month. How much would this cost on Fi? I currently have 4 unlimited SIM's, a extra voip number, and a low speed SIM with one of my line numbers copied. It costs about $160/mo. If I run into an area where I don't have service, I have a second provider that's also unlimited and costs $4/mo.
    - joecool1029 8y ago
      Historically T-Mobile was terrible. They now have native roaming on US Cellular and band 12 (700mhz) and band 71 (600mhz) lowband coverage. This covered a lot of the gaps. Sprint is weird, since they really only have halfassed voLTE they rely on a giant legacy CDMA network that should have been put out to pasture 5 years ago. But they do have the largest number of roaming agreements if all you care about is ability to call (and not have data). They do have fast data but it requires you to be in line of sight of a tower, not have walls or wet leaves in the way, and have a phone supporting HPUA so you can actually upload things. AT&T's network has basically zero investment in recent years, unless in Georgia or a handful of other markets it's the worst of the 4. Poor spectrum planning, low capex, the only reason they are #2 is because they keep buying up companies with customers (shitty Mexican carriers and DirecTV). Verizon still seems best (hardware, spectrum planning, roadmap, coverage), but no plans ideal for my needs. Poor for travel.
- pilom 8y ago
  T-mobile's bad coverage reputation is undeserved today. They are easily on par with AT&T _IF_ your phone supports their 700MHz band.
  - AlphaSite 8y ago
    My experience differs significantly from yours, having moved from att to T-Mobile in the last 3 months.
- bubblethink 8y ago
  Google Fi does not even qualify as an operator really. It is not a standard that any device can implement. It is only implemented by google's blob. You can use google-fi as a regular network if you hardcode to one operator, but the switching stuff needs a blob.
int_19h 8y ago
It's not exactly cheap at $10/Gb.

vasco 8y ago

Can the ISP detect if you're using it as an AP?

the_pwner224 8y ago
If you use the stock ROM then they probably can. A fey years ago the carriers would put proprietary hotspot apps on your phone which would integrate with their billing system, but if you switched to another ROM you could just use the built-in Android hotspot option and it would work just fine. With an AOSP ROM like LineageOS they can't detect it from the phone itself, but there are still some differences in the packets that a phone would send vs the packets a computer would send (you can Google about how to hide tethering on T-Mobile and find some discussion on that); it's not very hard to change your settings to avoid that method of detection.
- firmgently 8y ago
  This probably refers to TTL, which can be easily changed to disguise the 'hop' from your device to your phone... but Deep Packet Inspection is apparently commonly used nowadays too. To get around that you need to be encrypting with a VPN or similar setup. This is my simplistic understanding of the state of play based on the last time I looked into it but as mentioned above it's easy to Google.
  - dzhiurgis 8y ago
    How do you fix the TTL trick?
    - gsich 8y ago
      You set the default TTL in your OS to +=1.
    - joecool1029 8y ago
      on the AP (phone): iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -j TTL --ttl-set 65 You will need TTL target built into the kernel of the ROM you are using. LineageOS is unwilling to do it officially, so I build my own with it enabled. It's a good idea to only use ipv4 when doing this. A few services are detected on TMUS, so for those VPN. Sprint doesn't seem to care, but they have a patent on TTL detection too from around 10 years ago. I normally do not VPN, but I do use my own DNS since I don't like carrier hijacking.

rascul 8y ago

It's not a data plan, but I'm using straight talk's $55 "unlimited" plan. Supposedly I'll get throttled or whatever after 50GB or so based on congestion, but I'm generally over 100GB just from tethering and I've never been throttled. Not sure what network they use, I think Verizon. Might be an option to consider if you haven't yet.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

maverick5 8y ago

My folks were nearly burned out in the Paradise Camp Fire (there's no visible structures around them). They went with a satellite-only broadband provider because it would've taken another 1-2 months from now to get POTS telephone restored (they would be the only customer on the street).

syntaxing 8y ago

I know T-mobile has some coverage issues but their phone plan has free phone tethering. I think its capped at 3G speed but works great for typical laptop usage.

mindslight 8y ago

> A lot of the mobile data plans actually only apply to direct usage from your phone. Not when using it as an AP (tethering). Not to take away from the larger point about US data plans, which is generally true. But the fundamental market philosophy of the US is to exploit individuals' laziness. If you're unwilling to do the basic modern necessity of taking control of your phone, then you perfectly fit the profile to be their victim. If you're just walking into a carrier store/kiosk and asking them what they overtly market, you basically have "$$$" written on your forehead. Practically - if I needed an LTE connection, I'd setup a fixed antenna aimed at a Sprint tower on a Clearwire-settlement plan, look into buying a grandfathered Mobley device on eBay, or accept a slightly lower speed for a consumer "unlimited data" plan (eg $55/mo for 3Mbps at Cricket).

socialist_coder 8y ago
I'm really glad you made this comment because you're actually totally right. I am a very competent developer. I should just figure out how to get tethering setup outside their mobile hotspot limits so it looks like phone data. Looks like I should be able to do it with this from my Apple device: https://github.com/rickyzhang82/tethering/wiki https://github.com/rickyzhang82/tethering/wiki

pilom 8y ago

Good plans come up semi frequently, you just need to know where to look. I worked from an RV full time for 2 years using only cell plans and I was pretty happy with the plans I had. I still use my Verizon Grandfathered Unlimited plan for home internet and routinely use >100GB/month for $80/month. That plus an AT&T connected car plan with unlimited data for $25/month and I am set. I spent a lot of time following https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/ https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/ before pulling the trigger on plans.

casefields 8y ago
It's pretty crazy to think I've been using the same data plan for well over a decade but that Verizon grandfathered unlimited really is worth it. Some months I don't use much but others I can go well into the hundreds and hundreds of GB without breaking a sweat.

andy_adams 8y ago

> Absolute garbage if you actually try to use it for any serious work from a PC. I beg to differ - I have 2 hotspots from Verizon (15GB each -> 30GB total/month) and they support my full-time work as a remote developer. I have to avoid watching HD video, but that's effectively the only restriction I have.

turtlebits 8y ago

I have 2 phones, one on Sprint's Free year plan - which I have yet to see throttle, even with tethering. My other phone is in Mint SIM, which costs $20/mo for 8gb of LTE and works great, and tethering is shared with regular data.

xchaotic 8y ago
How is 8GB/mo LTE a good deal? Theoretically you should be able to use your allowance in minutes (or it's not really LTE)

atomical 8y ago

I used around a terabyte one month on T-Mobile's unlimited plan. I think at the time I paid around $90.