4 ms·

This is just complete BS, drug tests are mostly required for mid-to-high paying jobs, not your typical low income job. I've never had to take a drug test for an

by astura 8y ago

This is just complete BS, drug tests are mostly required for mid-to-high paying jobs, not your typical low income job. I've never had to take a drug test for any of the sub $10/hour jobs I've worked, I've had to take a drug test for every single software job I've ever worked. In fact, I have an acquaintance who was talking about quitting weed the other day and how difficult is is. When I asked her what made her quit she said "I'm sick of making only $30,000 a year and any jobs that pay over $30,000 a year are going to require a drug test." Having your work phone calls monitored is hardly something to get worked up about (you're using your phone for work...do you also get mad when your supervisors monitor your work in person?) and almost certainly not specific to low income employees. CCTV is literally everywhere, nobody low income works in my building and everyone's monitored with CCTV. Big whoop. Psychometric tests are very, very uncommon and not at all specific to low income employees, in fact, I'd argue the opposite (I mean... college is basically treated as a psychometric test)

notfromhere 8y ago
i've never heard of any place in tech that drug tested that didn't involve getting a security clearance. no one's drug testing people making 100k+, but drug tests for low-level jobs are far, far more common than you think.
- astura 8y ago
  Sure your cool valley startup with a flip-flop wearing CEO isn't going to require a drug test (and probably not a formal background check), but buttoned up corporate America absolutely does as well as government and most companies who does business with government. So basically most non-small-companies outside of California. Employee drug testing got popular in the early-90s, it was even the topic of a Seinfeld joke. Though I hear its becoming less common in the last few years, and some have stopped testing for marijuana. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/employment-trends/2018/05/03/labor-shortage-businesses-mellow-over-hiring-pot-smokers/573710002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/employment-tren... >There is no definitive data on how many companies conduct drug tests, though the Society for Human Resources Management found in a survey that 57 percent do so. Nor is there any recent data on how many have dropped marijuana from mandatory drug testing. >After the Drug-Free Workplace Act was enacted in 1988, amid concerns about cocaine use, drug testing spread to most large companies. All Fortune 500 companies now engage in some form of drug testing, according to Barry Sample, a senior director at Quest Diagnostics, one of the largest testing firms.
  - cgriswald 8y ago
    Your citation doesn't really support any of the arguments, since it doesn't address which jobs require drug testing at those Fortune 500 companies. For example, Walmart is number one on the list. Is it the CEO who is being tested, or the guys unloading the shipping trucks?
  - notfromhere 8y ago
    I've worked at a few non-small companies outside of California, literally none of them have even floated a drug test.
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    I have not once in the entirety of my software development experience been drug tested. Prior to my current job at Large Corporation I worked at a government contractor. Not that I ever did drugs because there was no way I was going to risk the government coming down on me, but it's an example of how drug testing is still something mostly relegated to the lower paying jobs unless your employer has reasonable suspicion in the case of government work.
- reallydude 8y ago
  Off the top of my head....medical software companies almost always require it (hey, it's basically free for them, since they have their own labs), any company with older tech like Coldfusion, ADA, etc seem to test to weed out developers who are scraping the bottom barrel due to undisclosed personal problems, financial/real-estate software companies, and this is all on top of rigorous background checks that may or may not matter. The drug test matters.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  > i've never heard of any place in tech that drug tested that didn't involve getting a security clearance If the company is accepting US government contracts, and you would be working on a team under such a contract, then the company is likely to be required to drug test you even if a security clearance is not required.
  - notfromhere 8y ago
    That's actually pretty rare. I've worked at places that did government contracting and none of the teams directly servicing those contracts were tested, neither was anyone else at the company.
    - JohnFen 8y ago
      Thanks for the correction. I was really just going by what I've heard from colleagues, but my specialty is network security and the requirements may (or may not) be stricter there.
ctrl-j 8y ago
> I've never had to take a drug test for any of the sub $10/hour jobs I've worked, I've had to take one for every single software job I've worked. Interesting. My experience has been the opposite. Haven't been drug tested since I got my last minimum wage job working in a grocery store. > Having your work phone calls monitored is hardly something to get worked up about (you're using your phone for work...do you also get mad when your supervisors monitor your work in person?) Uh.. yeah, if my boss starts watching me work directly and isn't actively collaborating with me - I'm going to be looking for a new job.. > Nobody low income works in my building and everyone's monitored with CCTV. Very curious where you are located? That's certainly not the norm in any dev shop I've worked in. There's cameras on the server rooms - and building security.. but nobody is monitoring the employees. Are you US based? > Psychometric tests are very uncommon and not at all specific to low income employees, I'd argue the opposite (I mean... college is basically treated as a psychometric test) College is not a psychometric test. A psychometric test is one of those "You see your coworker report to work drunk out of his mind, do you: A. Contact management, B. Pull out a 5th to help him with the Hair of the Dog, or C. Not notice because you're too high to give a fuck." I've filled out several of those over the years - ALL for low-wage retail positions. If you want to argue high-earners are tested - the long-form interview process is closer to the equivalent.
- astura 8y ago
  There's cameras on each corner of the building covering the entire parking lot and parameter. Cameras at both front and back doors and entrance way. Cameras covering the entire reception area/lobby from like every angle, cameras in all the hallways, cameras in the server room. There might be more I never noticed. Typical 21st century office building, really.
  - ctrl-j 8y ago
    That's not the same as productivity monitoring. It's really really not. Cameras for asset protection and building security != your boss looking over your shoulder while you work.
- andrei_says_ 8y ago
danans 8y ago
> This is just complete BS, drug tests are mostly required for mid-to-high paying jobs, not your typical low income job. I'd offer a different take: they are required often for skilled manufacturing jobs, like for people operating precision or dangerous machinery. I've seen many anecdotes where factory owners say that they can't find workers for machine operator positions who don't test positive for meth or opioids. It's also possible that some of those employers are using drug tests as a sort of "morality" bar, but I'd bet they primarily want to protect their expensive capital equipment and their other non drug using employees from potential drug-use related accidents. But I doubt there is a lot of drug testing for burger flipping or grocery bagging type jobs, especially not in a tight labor market as exists today.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  It seems like they're typically jobs where the employee has a high chance of either being injured, or causing a lot of damage.
  - danans 8y ago
    Yes, that's probably a good generalization of the type of job that requires it - and "causing a lot of damage" even captures the case of high-skilled jobs that require security clearances.
  - asark 8y ago
    My understanding is it's an insurance thing. As in, the owners' insurance rates would be crazy-high if they didn't drug test (at least) anyone operating machinery.
pavel_lishin 8y ago
If we're throwing anecdata on the pile, my experience is completely opposite. I've never had to take a drug test for a software engineering position - and I would flat out refuse to if a company required one - but I've had to pee in a cup before Kohl's would let me unload their trucks.
andrei_says_ 8y ago
If financial professionals would be forced to drug test then there would be very few working financial professionals.
JohnFen 8y ago
> This is just complete BS, drug tests are mostly required for mid-to-high paying jobs, not your typical low income job. You may have been out of the low income market for too long. The landscape has changed. The vast majority of minimum-wage jobs come with drug testing requirements in my area. In the meantime, over my entire professional software development career, I have only been asked to take a drug test twice (and declined once -- the job was nowhere near good enough to put up with that kind of nonsense).

by astura 8y ago

notfromhere 8y ago

i've never heard of any place in tech that drug tested that didn't involve getting a security clearance. no one's drug testing people making 100k+, but drug tests for low-level jobs are far, far more common than you think.

astura 8y ago
Sure your cool valley startup with a flip-flop wearing CEO isn't going to require a drug test (and probably not a formal background check), but buttoned up corporate America absolutely does as well as government and most companies who does business with government. So basically most non-small-companies outside of California. Employee drug testing got popular in the early-90s, it was even the topic of a Seinfeld joke. Though I hear its becoming less common in the last few years, and some have stopped testing for marijuana. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/employment-trends/2018/05/03/labor-shortage-businesses-mellow-over-hiring-pot-smokers/573710002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/employment-tren... >There is no definitive data on how many companies conduct drug tests, though the Society for Human Resources Management found in a survey that 57 percent do so. Nor is there any recent data on how many have dropped marijuana from mandatory drug testing. >After the Drug-Free Workplace Act was enacted in 1988, amid concerns about cocaine use, drug testing spread to most large companies. All Fortune 500 companies now engage in some form of drug testing, according to Barry Sample, a senior director at Quest Diagnostics, one of the largest testing firms.
- cgriswald 8y ago
  Your citation doesn't really support any of the arguments, since it doesn't address which jobs require drug testing at those Fortune 500 companies. For example, Walmart is number one on the list. Is it the CEO who is being tested, or the guys unloading the shipping trucks?
- notfromhere 8y ago
  I've worked at a few non-small companies outside of California, literally none of them have even floated a drug test.
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  I have not once in the entirety of my software development experience been drug tested. Prior to my current job at Large Corporation I worked at a government contractor. Not that I ever did drugs because there was no way I was going to risk the government coming down on me, but it's an example of how drug testing is still something mostly relegated to the lower paying jobs unless your employer has reasonable suspicion in the case of government work.
reallydude 8y ago
Off the top of my head....medical software companies almost always require it (hey, it's basically free for them, since they have their own labs), any company with older tech like Coldfusion, ADA, etc seem to test to weed out developers who are scraping the bottom barrel due to undisclosed personal problems, financial/real-estate software companies, and this is all on top of rigorous background checks that may or may not matter. The drug test matters.
JohnFen 8y ago
> i've never heard of any place in tech that drug tested that didn't involve getting a security clearance If the company is accepting US government contracts, and you would be working on a team under such a contract, then the company is likely to be required to drug test you even if a security clearance is not required.
- notfromhere 8y ago
  That's actually pretty rare. I've worked at places that did government contracting and none of the teams directly servicing those contracts were tested, neither was anyone else at the company.
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    Thanks for the correction. I was really just going by what I've heard from colleagues, but my specialty is network security and the requirements may (or may not) be stricter there.

ctrl-j 8y ago

> I've never had to take a drug test for any of the sub $10/hour jobs I've worked, I've had to take one for every single software job I've worked. Interesting. My experience has been the opposite. Haven't been drug tested since I got my last minimum wage job working in a grocery store. > Having your work phone calls monitored is hardly something to get worked up about (you're using your phone for work...do you also get mad when your supervisors monitor your work in person?) Uh.. yeah, if my boss starts watching me work directly and isn't actively collaborating with me - I'm going to be looking for a new job.. > Nobody low income works in my building and everyone's monitored with CCTV. Very curious where you are located? That's certainly not the norm in any dev shop I've worked in. There's cameras on the server rooms - and building security.. but nobody is monitoring the employees. Are you US based? > Psychometric tests are very uncommon and not at all specific to low income employees, I'd argue the opposite (I mean... college is basically treated as a psychometric test) College is not a psychometric test. A psychometric test is one of those "You see your coworker report to work drunk out of his mind, do you: A. Contact management, B. Pull out a 5th to help him with the Hair of the Dog, or C. Not notice because you're too high to give a fuck." I've filled out several of those over the years - ALL for low-wage retail positions. If you want to argue high-earners are tested - the long-form interview process is closer to the equivalent.

astura 8y ago
There's cameras on each corner of the building covering the entire parking lot and parameter. Cameras at both front and back doors and entrance way. Cameras covering the entire reception area/lobby from like every angle, cameras in all the hallways, cameras in the server room. There might be more I never noticed. Typical 21st century office building, really.
- ctrl-j 8y ago
  That's not the same as productivity monitoring. It's really really not. Cameras for asset protection and building security != your boss looking over your shoulder while you work.
andrei_says_ 8y ago

danans 8y ago

> This is just complete BS, drug tests are mostly required for mid-to-high paying jobs, not your typical low income job. I'd offer a different take: they are required often for skilled manufacturing jobs, like for people operating precision or dangerous machinery. I've seen many anecdotes where factory owners say that they can't find workers for machine operator positions who don't test positive for meth or opioids. It's also possible that some of those employers are using drug tests as a sort of "morality" bar, but I'd bet they primarily want to protect their expensive capital equipment and their other non drug using employees from potential drug-use related accidents. But I doubt there is a lot of drug testing for burger flipping or grocery bagging type jobs, especially not in a tight labor market as exists today.

pavel_lishin 8y ago
It seems like they're typically jobs where the employee has a high chance of either being injured, or causing a lot of damage.
- danans 8y ago
  Yes, that's probably a good generalization of the type of job that requires it - and "causing a lot of damage" even captures the case of high-skilled jobs that require security clearances.
- asark 8y ago
  My understanding is it's an insurance thing. As in, the owners' insurance rates would be crazy-high if they didn't drug test (at least) anyone operating machinery.

pavel_lishin 8y ago

If we're throwing anecdata on the pile, my experience is completely opposite. I've never had to take a drug test for a software engineering position - and I would flat out refuse to if a company required one - but I've had to pee in a cup before Kohl's would let me unload their trucks.

andrei_says_ 8y ago

If financial professionals would be forced to drug test then there would be very few working financial professionals.

JohnFen 8y ago

> This is just complete BS, drug tests are mostly required for mid-to-high paying jobs, not your typical low income job. You may have been out of the low income market for too long. The landscape has changed. The vast majority of minimum-wage jobs come with drug testing requirements in my area. In the meantime, over my entire professional software development career, I have only been asked to take a drug test twice (and declined once -- the job was nowhere near good enough to put up with that kind of nonsense).