7 ms·

Keeping the lightning port is what really jumped out at me. Now some iPads are going to have USB C and others are going to have lightning, all under the same u

Keeping the lightning port is what really jumped out at me. Now some iPads are going to have USB C and others are going to have lightning, all under the same umbrella product of the iPad. What is even worse (!) is that the iPhones and iPads still ship with a USB A to lightning cable, meaning even users inside the Apple ecosystem need a USB C/thunderbolt dongle with usb A ports to connect their iPhones/iPads to their computers. I have no idea how this decision was approved without thinking about this.

chrisseaton 8y ago
> to connect their iPhones/iPads to their computers Why do you need to connect your iPad to your computer? I have never connected mine - everything goes through the cloud or Bluetooth. Are you developing apps on it? That's a pretty niche use-case.
- mattdesl 8y ago
  Charging, transferring photos and MP3s. Granted many people are using wireless (airdrop, iCloud etc) but not all.
- hobs 8y ago
  Because they want to do a manual backup instead of just iCloud? Because it was initially designed and delivered that way? Because they like manually managing music and videos? etc
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    I think these are pretty obtuse use-cases these days for the vast majority of people. I also manage videos and things but I do it via the cloud like most people. You may disagree with a that but it explains why they went that route - it wasn't a case of them not thinking.
    - baobrain 8y ago
      Is wanting to connect to your Macbook to charge your phone an obtuse use case? At the very least apple should have shipped with a USB-C to lightning cable, not USB-A.
      - Bud 8y ago
        Why? You keep repeating this without ever defending your argument. As of right now, and in the near future, more Mac users have USB-A. There is simply no compelling reason to make this change unless you absolutely need extra features provided uniquely by USB-C. And this device doesn't need anything like that.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        asark 8y ago
        The reverse problem (I have lots and lots of USB-A devices, while the only USB-C device in my house is my wife's Android phone, so like almost everyone else I had "no compelling reason" to want a device with any USB-C ports, let alone only USB-C ports) didn't convince Apple to leave one or two USB-A ports in their pro macbooks, unfortunately. That you can't go buy a current macbook and current iphone or ipad and connect the two when you get home unless you buy extra stuff, but you can if you have an older macbook, is silly. It is a point in favor of that "Apple's greatest MacBook Pro yet: the 2015" joke/actually-true-thing, I guess.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Are you trying to manage large videos via the cloud with only a crummy WiFi connection shared with an entire school?
      - chrisseaton 8y ago
        The problem is your WiFi then, not the iPad's design. It's intended to be used with a reasonable network connection.
- bt3 8y ago
  As someone that historically relied on an iPad Mini for media consumption on the many weekly flights I take, it is not realistic to download 10+ GB of content directly onto the device. Especially since I don't use Apple's ecosystem of media and generally rely on my own, I find myself using the VLC app to watch content that is loaded via iTunes and its ability to load files as you would any other document app. The "use case" of connecting your devices to your computer is still alive and well, despite being in the era of cloud.
  - user9182031 8y ago
    "alive and well" might be a stretch. I don't know a soul who plugs their devices into their computers. Using VLC to watch media is also a blast from the past. Grandpa, is that you?
    - bt3 8y ago
      I've found VLC to be the only app that can play H.264 .mkv files without stuttering on my poor first-gen iPad Mini :)
- vbezhenar 8y ago
  Why ship any cable at all then?
  - kgwgk 8y ago
    Charging.
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  I connect my tablet because wifi is too slow when transferring large files.
- baobrain 8y ago
  > Are you developing apps on it? That's a pretty niche use-case. A niche but extremely important use case, isn't it? Without app developers the platform is dead.
  - jonfw 8y ago
    App developers aren't likely to switch ecosystems over minor quality of life issues.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    It's a small enough (and dependent-on-Apple) niche that "use an adapter" is something you can tell the developers to do.
vbezhenar 8y ago
I like lightning port, it's pretty natural compared to USB-C. Male port which could break on cable, female port which won't break on device. USB-C seems like very fragile decision, so it's only good that they don't abandon their better port. That said, they should definitely ship all necessary cables, it's really strange that they trying to save tiny money on premium product.
- amluto 8y ago
  You have this backwards. Apple’s shoddy (but slim!) cable construction notwithstanding, the Lightning male metal bit is quite strong. The parts that wear out are the springy parts in the female connector. USB-C puts the springy parts in the male connector. (Lightning also seems prone to arcing or overheating damage to the power pins. Source: visual inspection of my many failed Apple and third-party Lightning cables.)
  - sascha_sl 8y ago
    Yes, I've had every lightning cable, apple or not, show darkened and eventually dying 4th pins. It's infuriating. You essentially have to unplug the USB-A side first to prevent it from happening. Strange enough I've not seen this happen to a lot of other people.
    - chipotle_coyote 8y ago
      Strange enough I've not seen this happen to a lot of other people. Yeah, I've never had that happen, and I've been using Lightning cables since they were a thing. I've rarely had any problems with Lightning cables, though. (The same couldn't be said for their predecessor 30-pin cable.) I'm trying to think if there could be anything weird about your environment doing that, but I'm drawing a blank. "You're holding it wrong" seems even less applicable here than it would to antennas. :)
      - velosol 8y ago
        Living closer to the coast (high humidity and salt content), living in the drier regions of the country (low humidity) could be part of the puzzle.
everyone 8y ago
I'd love to see some data on how much of Apples profits come directly from selling dongles. Their hardware nowadays is probably designed to facilitate a certain amount of dongle sales. They will mark-up the sale price of an intel cpu by 3 or 4 100%, but the markup on the dongles is even greater, 800 or 1000% it seems to be comparing the prices to similar cables.
- chipotle_coyote 8y ago
  I keep seeing accusations that Apple has a nefarious plan to make money through dongles, but if that were the case, wouldn't they have more proprietary connectors rather than less? The only dongle I have for my iPad Pro is one that allows HDMI output, and it's from Anker. And while I do have a USB-C to USB-A dongle from Apple for my MacBook Pro, in practice I rarely used it; I just used cables with the right connectors on both ends (e.g., USB-C to Mini USB), and none of those cables were from Apple except the USB-C to USB-C cable that came with it.
runn1ng 8y ago
Apple users love dongles though.
protomyth 8y ago
It basically means those schools who bought the 30 iPad case don't have to replace the cables and I would guess the chargers.
- Corrado 8y ago
  It's probably more like 300 iPads. However, I'm not sure this really matters as you get the cables and chargers with the new iPads and you would have to purchase new cases anyway, even it was the same form factor as the old machines.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    I'm talking the classroom cart[1], so no, we don't have to buy new anything other than the iPads. If you are in a school setting and you are managing iPads lose, then you really need to get a cart. Just the theft deterrence is worth it. 1) here is one example https://ipadcarts.com/univault-charging-cart/ https://ipadcarts.com/univault-charging-cart/ (although the one we bought had the power backplane installed already)
Bud 8y ago
1) USB-C doesn't fit on the old iPad mini case design. The mini is used in a lot of embedded applications where keeping the exact same form factor is important. 2) It's incorrect to say that "now" some iPads will have USB-C and others Lightning. That was already the case. This simply continues the status quo. 3) It's also incorrect to say that "users" in the Apple ecosystem will "need" a dongle. That's only the case for those with MacBook Pros. That's a minority of users. 4) You also got it wrong about the iPhone. You don't need any cable at all to connect an iPhone to a Mac; they connect wirelessly. For those who want to do this, the majority of users are still on Macs with USB-A.
- licyeus 8y ago
  All modern Mac laptops are USB-C only. The MacBook Airs were the last holdout and became USB-C only last year.

chrisseaton 8y ago

> to connect their iPhones/iPads to their computers Why do you need to connect your iPad to your computer? I have never connected mine - everything goes through the cloud or Bluetooth. Are you developing apps on it? That's a pretty niche use-case.

mattdesl 8y ago
Charging, transferring photos and MP3s. Granted many people are using wireless (airdrop, iCloud etc) but not all.
hobs 8y ago
Because they want to do a manual backup instead of just iCloud? Because it was initially designed and delivered that way? Because they like manually managing music and videos? etc
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  I think these are pretty obtuse use-cases these days for the vast majority of people. I also manage videos and things but I do it via the cloud like most people. You may disagree with a that but it explains why they went that route - it wasn't a case of them not thinking.
  - baobrain 8y ago
    Is wanting to connect to your Macbook to charge your phone an obtuse use case? At the very least apple should have shipped with a USB-C to lightning cable, not USB-A.
    - Bud 8y ago
      Why? You keep repeating this without ever defending your argument. As of right now, and in the near future, more Mac users have USB-A. There is simply no compelling reason to make this change unless you absolutely need extra features provided uniquely by USB-C. And this device doesn't need anything like that.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - asark 8y ago
        The reverse problem (I have lots and lots of USB-A devices, while the only USB-C device in my house is my wife's Android phone, so like almost everyone else I had "no compelling reason" to want a device with any USB-C ports, let alone only USB-C ports) didn't convince Apple to leave one or two USB-A ports in their pro macbooks, unfortunately. That you can't go buy a current macbook and current iphone or ipad and connect the two when you get home unless you buy extra stuff, but you can if you have an older macbook, is silly. It is a point in favor of that "Apple's greatest MacBook Pro yet: the 2015" joke/actually-true-thing, I guess.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Are you trying to manage large videos via the cloud with only a crummy WiFi connection shared with an entire school?
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      The problem is your WiFi then, not the iPad's design. It's intended to be used with a reasonable network connection.
bt3 8y ago
As someone that historically relied on an iPad Mini for media consumption on the many weekly flights I take, it is not realistic to download 10+ GB of content directly onto the device. Especially since I don't use Apple's ecosystem of media and generally rely on my own, I find myself using the VLC app to watch content that is loaded via iTunes and its ability to load files as you would any other document app. The "use case" of connecting your devices to your computer is still alive and well, despite being in the era of cloud.
- user9182031 8y ago
  "alive and well" might be a stretch. I don't know a soul who plugs their devices into their computers. Using VLC to watch media is also a blast from the past. Grandpa, is that you?
  - bt3 8y ago
    I've found VLC to be the only app that can play H.264 .mkv files without stuttering on my poor first-gen iPad Mini :)
vbezhenar 8y ago
Why ship any cable at all then?
- kgwgk 8y ago
  Charging.
mixmastamyk 8y ago
I connect my tablet because wifi is too slow when transferring large files.
baobrain 8y ago
> Are you developing apps on it? That's a pretty niche use-case. A niche but extremely important use case, isn't it? Without app developers the platform is dead.
- jonfw 8y ago
  App developers aren't likely to switch ecosystems over minor quality of life issues.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  It's a small enough (and dependent-on-Apple) niche that "use an adapter" is something you can tell the developers to do.

vbezhenar 8y ago

I like lightning port, it's pretty natural compared to USB-C. Male port which could break on cable, female port which won't break on device. USB-C seems like very fragile decision, so it's only good that they don't abandon their better port. That said, they should definitely ship all necessary cables, it's really strange that they trying to save tiny money on premium product.

amluto 8y ago
You have this backwards. Apple’s shoddy (but slim!) cable construction notwithstanding, the Lightning male metal bit is quite strong. The parts that wear out are the springy parts in the female connector. USB-C puts the springy parts in the male connector. (Lightning also seems prone to arcing or overheating damage to the power pins. Source: visual inspection of my many failed Apple and third-party Lightning cables.)
- sascha_sl 8y ago
  Yes, I've had every lightning cable, apple or not, show darkened and eventually dying 4th pins. It's infuriating. You essentially have to unplug the USB-A side first to prevent it from happening. Strange enough I've not seen this happen to a lot of other people.
  - chipotle_coyote 8y ago
    Strange enough I've not seen this happen to a lot of other people. Yeah, I've never had that happen, and I've been using Lightning cables since they were a thing. I've rarely had any problems with Lightning cables, though. (The same couldn't be said for their predecessor 30-pin cable.) I'm trying to think if there could be anything weird about your environment doing that, but I'm drawing a blank. "You're holding it wrong" seems even less applicable here than it would to antennas. :)
    - velosol 8y ago
      Living closer to the coast (high humidity and salt content), living in the drier regions of the country (low humidity) could be part of the puzzle.

everyone 8y ago

I'd love to see some data on how much of Apples profits come directly from selling dongles. Their hardware nowadays is probably designed to facilitate a certain amount of dongle sales. They will mark-up the sale price of an intel cpu by 3 or 4 100%, but the markup on the dongles is even greater, 800 or 1000% it seems to be comparing the prices to similar cables.

chipotle_coyote 8y ago
I keep seeing accusations that Apple has a nefarious plan to make money through dongles, but if that were the case, wouldn't they have more proprietary connectors rather than less? The only dongle I have for my iPad Pro is one that allows HDMI output, and it's from Anker. And while I do have a USB-C to USB-A dongle from Apple for my MacBook Pro, in practice I rarely used it; I just used cables with the right connectors on both ends (e.g., USB-C to Mini USB), and none of those cables were from Apple except the USB-C to USB-C cable that came with it.

runn1ng 8y ago

Apple users love dongles though.

protomyth 8y ago

It basically means those schools who bought the 30 iPad case don't have to replace the cables and I would guess the chargers.

Corrado 8y ago
It's probably more like 300 iPads. However, I'm not sure this really matters as you get the cables and chargers with the new iPads and you would have to purchase new cases anyway, even it was the same form factor as the old machines.
- protomyth 8y ago
  I'm talking the classroom cart[1], so no, we don't have to buy new anything other than the iPads. If you are in a school setting and you are managing iPads lose, then you really need to get a cart. Just the theft deterrence is worth it. 1) here is one example https://ipadcarts.com/univault-charging-cart/ https://ipadcarts.com/univault-charging-cart/ (although the one we bought had the power backplane installed already)

Bud 8y ago

1) USB-C doesn't fit on the old iPad mini case design. The mini is used in a lot of embedded applications where keeping the exact same form factor is important. 2) It's incorrect to say that "now" some iPads will have USB-C and others Lightning. That was already the case. This simply continues the status quo. 3) It's also incorrect to say that "users" in the Apple ecosystem will "need" a dongle. That's only the case for those with MacBook Pros. That's a minority of users. 4) You also got it wrong about the iPhone. You don't need any cable at all to connect an iPhone to a Mac; they connect wirelessly. For those who want to do this, the majority of users are still on Macs with USB-A.

licyeus 8y ago
All modern Mac laptops are USB-C only. The MacBook Airs were the last holdout and became USB-C only last year.