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IRC doesn't even have the only feature I care about: the native ability to see messages sent while I was logged out. And no, I don't want to run my own bouncer

IRC doesn't even have the only feature I care about: the native ability to see messages sent while I was logged out. And no, I don't want to run my own bouncer, and I don't want people running their own insecure bouncers across my company. Yes, I could use something like IRCCloud but that requires another account and I'm tied to their client unless I pay[1] https://www.irccloud.com/faq#faq-bnc https://www.irccloud.com/faq#faq-bnc

LinuxBender 8y ago
There are a few web clients that use redis to allow you to see history. I will be the first to admit, those clients don't scale as well as IRC itself does. [1] [2] And of course, someone would have to manage that infrastructure. It isn't for everyone. Another option would be to rent a really cheap VM and run a tmux or screen session with weechat [3] or epic [4], but command line isn't for everyone either. [1] - https://github.com/thelounge/thelounge https://github.com/thelounge/thelounge [2] - https://github.com/Nordaaker/convos https://github.com/Nordaaker/convos [3] - https://weechat.org/ https://weechat.org/ [4] - http://www.epicsol.org/#getting_epic http://www.epicsol.org/#getting_epic
- hombre_fatal 8y ago
  Sure, but that fixes it for you, not anyone else. What's the point when the person you're talking to went offline because they went through a tunnel or momentarily closed their laptop when you sent the message? This classic HN idea that people only use Slack over IRC because it looks better/easier is a reminder of nerd hubris that prevents one from understanding people and products.
  - LinuxBender 8y ago
    Not sure I follow. The first to options I provided fix it for everyone.
    - hombre_fatal 8y ago
      What I mean is that everyone you talk to has to opt in to it too. I personally pay $50/year to irccloud.com for these features. Nobody else does. Every day I get the pleasant IRC experience of sending someone a message after they've parted or "hey I got d/c, what did you say again?" Slack and Discord coming out of the box with a fix for this for everyone is one of their fundamental community-building advantages over IRC.
      - LinuxBender 8y ago
        If they implemented one of the first two front-ends I linked, you would know what the message was and would not have to ask your friends to repeat The only people that opt-in are the IRC server infrastructure engineers. End users just connect to the web front end. The first two links turn your IRC servers into a Slack clone, except with more or less features. This is certainly non-trivial to set up and maintain and end users would not implement this. They are just consumers of it.
        hombre_fatal 8y ago
        Now I don't understand. I'm clearly talking about other people (everyone else but you), not the nerd running irssi on a VPS nor thelounge. In other words, IRC isn't worse than Slack/Discord in this regard because you have to opt-in to these things. It's worse because everyone else has to, and they clearly don't. For example, that I pay $50 to irccloud but nobody else does still makes IRC a poor experience for me because IRC is about communicating with other people, not masturbating over my irssi config.
        LinuxBender 8y ago
        I am not talking about putting TheLounge or Convos on a VPS node. I am talking about IRC administrators putting that, or a fork of that in front of their IRC infrastructure, so that you and your friends will have chat history / session persistence. The reference to VPS nodes was specifically for the case of WeeChat or Epic in a tmux or screen session as yet another alternate option. That is in no way related to TheLounge or Convos.
  - femiagbabiaka 8y ago
    People do use Slack because it looks better and is easier to use.... the features you're talking about are possible with IRC, it just requires work that the average consumer isn't willing to do. The other half of the equation is that IRC is better in ways that consumers don't care about, yourself included.
    - ses1984 8y ago
      Can you deploy irc in a way that meets or exceeds the features provided by slack to an enterprise with thousands of users? And then teach Joanne from accounting how to use it?
      - femiagbabiaka 8y ago
        We’re not disagreeing. That ease of deployment and use is Slacks killer feature. I’d go beyond that actually, there’s an entire suite of companies for whom their claim to fame is that exactly. And that’s predictable — technology is saving us time like it should.
  - mavhc 8y ago
    If they're running their own irc server they can run their own thelounge, or quassel server on the same machine, and everyone can connect via that, problem 1 solved. Problem 2 is easy file sharing Problem 3 is more features, ie IRC v3
femiagbabiaka 8y ago
If you want those features but are unwilling to run a bouncer or use irccloud, you’re correct, Slack is the best offering for you. But I’m wondering: why Slack and not IRCCloud if that’s the feature that matters to you?
- hombre_fatal 8y ago
  IRC is worse for me because the people I talk to don't run a bouncer or use irccloud even though I do. Fixing it just for me does not fix the reasons why IRC sucks in this regard.

LinuxBender 8y ago

There are a few web clients that use redis to allow you to see history. I will be the first to admit, those clients don't scale as well as IRC itself does. [1] [2] And of course, someone would have to manage that infrastructure. It isn't for everyone. Another option would be to rent a really cheap VM and run a tmux or screen session with weechat [3] or epic [4], but command line isn't for everyone either. [1] - https://github.com/thelounge/thelounge https://github.com/thelounge/thelounge [2] - https://github.com/Nordaaker/convos https://github.com/Nordaaker/convos [3] - https://weechat.org/ https://weechat.org/ [4] - http://www.epicsol.org/#getting_epic http://www.epicsol.org/#getting_epic

hombre_fatal 8y ago
Sure, but that fixes it for you, not anyone else. What's the point when the person you're talking to went offline because they went through a tunnel or momentarily closed their laptop when you sent the message? This classic HN idea that people only use Slack over IRC because it looks better/easier is a reminder of nerd hubris that prevents one from understanding people and products.
- LinuxBender 8y ago
  Not sure I follow. The first to options I provided fix it for everyone.
  - hombre_fatal 8y ago
    What I mean is that everyone you talk to has to opt in to it too. I personally pay $50/year to irccloud.com for these features. Nobody else does. Every day I get the pleasant IRC experience of sending someone a message after they've parted or "hey I got d/c, what did you say again?" Slack and Discord coming out of the box with a fix for this for everyone is one of their fundamental community-building advantages over IRC.
    - LinuxBender 8y ago
      If they implemented one of the first two front-ends I linked, you would know what the message was and would not have to ask your friends to repeat The only people that opt-in are the IRC server infrastructure engineers. End users just connect to the web front end. The first two links turn your IRC servers into a Slack clone, except with more or less features. This is certainly non-trivial to set up and maintain and end users would not implement this. They are just consumers of it.
      - hombre_fatal 8y ago
        Now I don't understand. I'm clearly talking about other people (everyone else but you), not the nerd running irssi on a VPS nor thelounge. In other words, IRC isn't worse than Slack/Discord in this regard because you have to opt-in to these things. It's worse because everyone else has to, and they clearly don't. For example, that I pay $50 to irccloud but nobody else does still makes IRC a poor experience for me because IRC is about communicating with other people, not masturbating over my irssi config.
        LinuxBender 8y ago
        I am not talking about putting TheLounge or Convos on a VPS node. I am talking about IRC administrators putting that, or a fork of that in front of their IRC infrastructure, so that you and your friends will have chat history / session persistence. The reference to VPS nodes was specifically for the case of WeeChat or Epic in a tmux or screen session as yet another alternate option. That is in no way related to TheLounge or Convos.
- femiagbabiaka 8y ago
  People do use Slack because it looks better and is easier to use.... the features you're talking about are possible with IRC, it just requires work that the average consumer isn't willing to do. The other half of the equation is that IRC is better in ways that consumers don't care about, yourself included.
  - ses1984 8y ago
    Can you deploy irc in a way that meets or exceeds the features provided by slack to an enterprise with thousands of users? And then teach Joanne from accounting how to use it?
    - femiagbabiaka 8y ago
      We’re not disagreeing. That ease of deployment and use is Slacks killer feature. I’d go beyond that actually, there’s an entire suite of companies for whom their claim to fame is that exactly. And that’s predictable — technology is saving us time like it should.
- mavhc 8y ago
  If they're running their own irc server they can run their own thelounge, or quassel server on the same machine, and everyone can connect via that, problem 1 solved. Problem 2 is easy file sharing Problem 3 is more features, ie IRC v3

femiagbabiaka 8y ago

If you want those features but are unwilling to run a bouncer or use irccloud, you’re correct, Slack is the best offering for you. But I’m wondering: why Slack and not IRCCloud if that’s the feature that matters to you?

hombre_fatal 8y ago
IRC is worse for me because the people I talk to don't run a bouncer or use irccloud even though I do. Fixing it just for me does not fix the reasons why IRC sucks in this regard.