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I'm curious to see how it plays out with the 20-somethings in the US. They've been brought up on more civic-mindedness and their trend is back to urban areas fo

by bpyne 8y ago

I'm curious to see how it plays out with the 20-somethings in the US. They've been brought up on more civic-mindedness and their trend is back to urban areas for living. They'll be a better bellweather.

rfrey 8y ago
I’m not sure 20-somethings are more civic minded. They voted in the last election at participation rates consistent with the last 40 years for that age group. Participation rates will probably increase as they age. Unfortunately priorities tend to change as people age too.
- bpyne 8y ago
  The participation rate for the next election is where I hope to see a jump for that age group. The last presidential election hopefully scared them into understanding the importance of voting.
- isostatic 8y ago
  And they'll move out of the cities into suburbia in their 30s, as they always do. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47529562 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47529562 Over the past decade, about 550,000 more Britons left London than moved to it. This trend is not unique to London; it is seen in many big US cities, including New York, Miami, Chicago and Los Angeles. ... People arrive in their 20s looking for jobs, then retreat in their 30s. Although it seems more likely they they only retreat to "commuter" distance -- in London that's about 40-60 minutes from a main rail terminal, which of course leads to increased pollution. ... The vibrancy and job opportunities offered by our biggest cities appeal to students and young professionals. This shapes these cities in terms of the shops, bars and other facilities they offer. But among older residents, the desire for things like more space and a less urban environment grows, and many move out.
  - bpyne 8y ago
    I think it depends on your idea of suburbia. We tend to have smaller cities surrounding our major city. These smaller cities have mixed use neighborhoods - commercial and residential - and lots of multi-family homes. I grew up in such a city in a multi-family home (locally, we knew them as tenements). An article appeared recently about the trend toward purchasing multi-families again due to their cost-effectiveness. So, I'm not certain of the 30-somthings move to the burbs trend yet.
  - at-fates-hands 8y ago
    I live in Minneapolis and I've seen this first hand. The funny thing is all of the downtown areas have been gentrified so much, instead of attracting the young 20's tech crowd, all the new condo's they've built are priced too high for their target market so now the young kids are simply moving out the suburbs right away. I have a few younger nephews who graduated, were all about the music scene and after a year of looking for a decent apartment in the city, just gave up and bought a house in the second ring suburbs. They still work downtown and take the train in and get on near a park and ride, but the over gentrification has soured them to living in the city. It was funny to hear them tell me the city had no character anymore. It was all geared towards rich, trust fund kids or millionaire retirees.
  - michaelt 8y ago
    People arrive in their 20s looking for jobs, then retreat in their 30s. Terraced house in London: £675,216 [1] Terraced house in Hertfordshire: £380,897 [2] The only surprising thing here is people are having to save until their 30s before buying a house. [1] https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-London.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-London.html [2] https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-Hertfordshire.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-Hertfordshire.ht...
    - isostatic 8y ago
      Both are unaffordable to normal people, especially with £1500 a month rent. But fundamentally you can't have a high density city and houses - the land value is just too high - and people don't want to bring kids up in tower blocks.
  - bpyne 8y ago
    Another issue with living in urban areas, at least in the US, is education. Schools in urban areas deal with more issues around family and poverty. The school buildings themselves are often older and require more maintenance. For young parents who may love urban life, the quality of education becomes a big factor.
    - isostatic 8y ago
      Schools cost far more in cities too -- higher salaries for teachers (as housing costs more), higher cost for the usage of the land, higher charges for everything from plumbers to school dinners.

by bpyne 8y ago

rfrey 8y ago

I’m not sure 20-somethings are more civic minded. They voted in the last election at participation rates consistent with the last 40 years for that age group. Participation rates will probably increase as they age. Unfortunately priorities tend to change as people age too.

bpyne 8y ago
The participation rate for the next election is where I hope to see a jump for that age group. The last presidential election hopefully scared them into understanding the importance of voting.
isostatic 8y ago
And they'll move out of the cities into suburbia in their 30s, as they always do. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47529562 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47529562 Over the past decade, about 550,000 more Britons left London than moved to it. This trend is not unique to London; it is seen in many big US cities, including New York, Miami, Chicago and Los Angeles. ... People arrive in their 20s looking for jobs, then retreat in their 30s. Although it seems more likely they they only retreat to "commuter" distance -- in London that's about 40-60 minutes from a main rail terminal, which of course leads to increased pollution. ... The vibrancy and job opportunities offered by our biggest cities appeal to students and young professionals. This shapes these cities in terms of the shops, bars and other facilities they offer. But among older residents, the desire for things like more space and a less urban environment grows, and many move out.
- bpyne 8y ago
  I think it depends on your idea of suburbia. We tend to have smaller cities surrounding our major city. These smaller cities have mixed use neighborhoods - commercial and residential - and lots of multi-family homes. I grew up in such a city in a multi-family home (locally, we knew them as tenements). An article appeared recently about the trend toward purchasing multi-families again due to their cost-effectiveness. So, I'm not certain of the 30-somthings move to the burbs trend yet.
- at-fates-hands 8y ago
  I live in Minneapolis and I've seen this first hand. The funny thing is all of the downtown areas have been gentrified so much, instead of attracting the young 20's tech crowd, all the new condo's they've built are priced too high for their target market so now the young kids are simply moving out the suburbs right away. I have a few younger nephews who graduated, were all about the music scene and after a year of looking for a decent apartment in the city, just gave up and bought a house in the second ring suburbs. They still work downtown and take the train in and get on near a park and ride, but the over gentrification has soured them to living in the city. It was funny to hear them tell me the city had no character anymore. It was all geared towards rich, trust fund kids or millionaire retirees.
- michaelt 8y ago
  People arrive in their 20s looking for jobs, then retreat in their 30s. Terraced house in London: £675,216 [1] Terraced house in Hertfordshire: £380,897 [2] The only surprising thing here is people are having to save until their 30s before buying a house. [1] https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-London.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-London.html [2] https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-Hertfordshire.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-Hertfordshire.ht...
  - isostatic 8y ago
    Both are unaffordable to normal people, especially with £1500 a month rent. But fundamentally you can't have a high density city and houses - the land value is just too high - and people don't want to bring kids up in tower blocks.
- bpyne 8y ago
  Another issue with living in urban areas, at least in the US, is education. Schools in urban areas deal with more issues around family and poverty. The school buildings themselves are often older and require more maintenance. For young parents who may love urban life, the quality of education becomes a big factor.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    Schools cost far more in cities too -- higher salaries for teachers (as housing costs more), higher cost for the usage of the land, higher charges for everything from plumbers to school dinners.