3 ms·

Disclaimer: I'm married to a Chinese person, I speak (some) Chinese, I've been to China. I love Chinese food. There's no racism in claiming that quite a lot of

Disclaimer: I'm married to a Chinese person, I speak (some) Chinese, I've been to China. I love Chinese food. There's no racism in claiming that quite a lot of the "Chinese" food one finds available in Europe is indeed quite dodgy.

LaGrange 8y ago
> Disclaimer: I'm married to a Chinese person, I speak (some) Chinese, I've been to China. I love Chinese food. "I'm not racist some of my best friends are $race" in third comment on the page, congratulations!
- coldtea 8y ago
  Having friends or even being married to X is a good sign to prove one is not racist towards X. The inverse idea, that this is somehow a bad argument, I can't even fathom how it started (and how messed the minds of those that think you must somehow be a racist if you make this argument are). (Sure, one can claim it hypocritically, just like everything else -- that doesn't mean the claim itself signals racism).
  - throwaway5t21 8y ago
    Except it just means you aren’t “racist” against a specific gender or that specific person. I’ve known plenty of expats in Asia that are married to a local, has mix-raced kids, and yet still says racist things about them. But their friends and family are “the good ones.” The Clippers former owner had a black girlfriend and paid his black players millions of dollars. He is still a racist.
- thraway-burnout 8y ago
  Yeah, I'm actually a closet self-hating racist who built a family with someone I despise. Plus took the time to learn their culture, values, and language; and live my life accordingly. What a bunch of nonsense...
  - LaGrange 8y ago
    ...that's a much more common case than you seem to imply, and your insistence that your marriage choice is some sort of an argument here only increases the likelihood.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      The only reason the argument is somehow suspect, is because people can't say anything about a group of people that's not considered racist by some "professionally offended on behalf of others". Anything negative I mean. They might be OK with 100% praise (though even that has been accused of "idealizing" and other BS by the "professionally offended on behalf of others"). So people saying e.g. "I'm not racist against X, I have X friends, but statistically X cause most of Y (a bad thing)" are considered racist and their qualifier is seen as bogus or hypocritical. Even if statistically, according to accepted official numbers, X indeed cause most of Y.
      - jerf 8y ago
        We really need to put a cultural moratorium/ban on being offended on behalf of others. I'm sure someone will pop up about how maybe the "others" are just too afraid to speak, but in practice I'm just not seeing that very often, but I am seeing a lot of people trying to basically culturally appropriate someone else's victimhood. And of course the people doing that are the most tedious and annoying spokespeople possible for whatever is being said.
        coldtea 8y ago
        What's worse is that most of these people do it for the because it's a fashion, harmless, gives you instant media credits. In the days when it was most needed (in the segregation times, when gay and AIDS was a dirty word, etc) only people with balls supported those minorities, and those people could not care less about BS "politically correct" names and such. Now, everybody and their dog support causes just because it's fashionable and scores them points. Such opportunists are worse than active bigots -- if Nazi's where in fashion, they'd score points by being nazis.
- oliwarner 8y ago
  People should be encouraged to disclose their background and expertise when they speak on subjects. Especially when it highlights the difference between what people in the West refer to as "Chinese", and the food that people eat in China. But why have a sensible conversation about things when we can just hop up and down when we think we've found something we think might offend somebody.
- dang 8y ago
  Instead of taking the discussion straight to toxic tropes, how about assuming good faith, as the guidelines ask? Here's the full version: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." They also ask you not to snark, and not to post flamebait. (And personal attacks, which you unfortunately crossed into in this thread, are right out.) https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
throwaway5t21 8y ago
I wonder if this comment would be acceptable for other groups? Disclaimer: I'm married to a Jewish person, I speak (some) Hebrew, I've been to Israel. I love Jewish food. There's no racism in claiming that quite a lot of the "Jewish" banks one finds available in Europe is indeed quite dodgy.

LaGrange 8y ago

> Disclaimer: I'm married to a Chinese person, I speak (some) Chinese, I've been to China. I love Chinese food. "I'm not racist some of my best friends are $race" in third comment on the page, congratulations!

coldtea 8y ago
Having friends or even being married to X is a good sign to prove one is not racist towards X. The inverse idea, that this is somehow a bad argument, I can't even fathom how it started (and how messed the minds of those that think you must somehow be a racist if you make this argument are). (Sure, one can claim it hypocritically, just like everything else -- that doesn't mean the claim itself signals racism).
- throwaway5t21 8y ago
  Except it just means you aren’t “racist” against a specific gender or that specific person. I’ve known plenty of expats in Asia that are married to a local, has mix-raced kids, and yet still says racist things about them. But their friends and family are “the good ones.” The Clippers former owner had a black girlfriend and paid his black players millions of dollars. He is still a racist.
thraway-burnout 8y ago
Yeah, I'm actually a closet self-hating racist who built a family with someone I despise. Plus took the time to learn their culture, values, and language; and live my life accordingly. What a bunch of nonsense...
- LaGrange 8y ago
  ...that's a much more common case than you seem to imply, and your insistence that your marriage choice is some sort of an argument here only increases the likelihood.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    The only reason the argument is somehow suspect, is because people can't say anything about a group of people that's not considered racist by some "professionally offended on behalf of others". Anything negative I mean. They might be OK with 100% praise (though even that has been accused of "idealizing" and other BS by the "professionally offended on behalf of others"). So people saying e.g. "I'm not racist against X, I have X friends, but statistically X cause most of Y (a bad thing)" are considered racist and their qualifier is seen as bogus or hypocritical. Even if statistically, according to accepted official numbers, X indeed cause most of Y.
    - jerf 8y ago
      We really need to put a cultural moratorium/ban on being offended on behalf of others. I'm sure someone will pop up about how maybe the "others" are just too afraid to speak, but in practice I'm just not seeing that very often, but I am seeing a lot of people trying to basically culturally appropriate someone else's victimhood. And of course the people doing that are the most tedious and annoying spokespeople possible for whatever is being said.
      - coldtea 8y ago
        What's worse is that most of these people do it for the because it's a fashion, harmless, gives you instant media credits. In the days when it was most needed (in the segregation times, when gay and AIDS was a dirty word, etc) only people with balls supported those minorities, and those people could not care less about BS "politically correct" names and such. Now, everybody and their dog support causes just because it's fashionable and scores them points. Such opportunists are worse than active bigots -- if Nazi's where in fashion, they'd score points by being nazis.
oliwarner 8y ago
People should be encouraged to disclose their background and expertise when they speak on subjects. Especially when it highlights the difference between what people in the West refer to as "Chinese", and the food that people eat in China. But why have a sensible conversation about things when we can just hop up and down when we think we've found something we think might offend somebody.
dang 8y ago
Instead of taking the discussion straight to toxic tropes, how about assuming good faith, as the guidelines ask? Here's the full version: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." They also ask you not to snark, and not to post flamebait. (And personal attacks, which you unfortunately crossed into in this thread, are right out.) https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

throwaway5t21 8y ago

I wonder if this comment would be acceptable for other groups? Disclaimer: I'm married to a Jewish person, I speak (some) Hebrew, I've been to Israel. I love Jewish food. There's no racism in claiming that quite a lot of the "Jewish" banks one finds available in Europe is indeed quite dodgy.