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Something that shocked me while visiting Korea was a friend explaining to me that a mask is the only way for her to go out without makeup. The societal pressur

by vhb 8y ago

Something that shocked me while visiting Korea was a friend explaining to me that a mask is the only way for her to go out without makeup. The societal pressure on appearance is so high, that just going to the grocery shopping without makeup is seen a socially unacceptable. The simplest way around it is to hide your face, and the best way to do so is to wear a surgical mask. On a side note, in Korea, this is not reserved to women, lot of men wear makeup as well.

deleted 8y ago
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coldtea 8y ago
>The societal pressure on appearance is so high, that just going to the grocery shopping without makeup is seen a socially unacceptable. Well, "socially unacceptable" if you're superficial and want to be popular and trendy. I have a few Korean friends and they don't particularly care. So, it's as much "pressure" as wearing brand name clothes would be in the Valley in the 90s.
- Veen 8y ago
  > if you're superficial and want to be popular and trendy You can be concerned about being popular and trendy without being superficial. Ignoring fashion, style, and appearance standards can hurt your life chances and your relationships with other people. In societies where popularity and trendiness signal and enhance status, it's rational to be concerned about them.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >You can be concerned about being popular and trendy without being superficial. Ignoring fashion, style, and appearance standards can hurt your life chances and your relationships with other people. If your worried about your "life chances and your relationships with other people" based on fashion and style, then you're superficial, and those are superficial relations (and a superficial career). Not caring about "fashion and style" doesn't mean you're some hobo style slob (which would indeed hurt your relations and life chances for non-superficial reasons, e.g. because you smell and wear shorts at the office).
- b_tterc_p 8y ago
  Are they actually living in urban Korea with white collar jobs?
- wigl 8y ago
  Being around Koreans as a non Korean, especially in another country, is vastly different than being in Korea. As someone below asked, if your friends are not living in urban Korea working white collar jobs this is likely less relevant. OC's friend was most likely half joking, half not. >Well, "socially unacceptable" if you're superficial and want to be popular and trendy. The hardship of trying to break into an exclusive group ("popular") and working towards that goal ("trendy") is not too far off from that which looms over much of Korean culture. The fear that a social slight might cast you as an outlier, hurting your possibility of getting into such a group and undoing all your work, is unfortunately well founded. In the Korean language, if one is an outlier in a group, the word used to compare them to the rest is not "different" but "wrong." You also imply that one's own sense of identity should be the main view considered, over the "superficial" views of others. While I agree on moral grounds, this is simply not the case in Korea. Tablo incident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablo#2010%E2%80%9311:_Musical_hiatus_and_Stanford_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablo#2010%E2%80%9311:_Musical... It doesn't matter if Stanford verified his attendance--if it seemed fishy it was as good as true. Korean Air stewards being required to do makeup training: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/05/the-k-pop-plastic-surgery-obsession/276215/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/05/the-k-pop... "This February, cabin crew for Korean Airlines participated in makeup training, a mandatory requirement for all new stewardesses. This year, there were more than the usual numbers in the room. Korean Air now requires male cabin crew to attend -- and to learn how to blush and bronze themselves." https://www.businessinsider.com/plastic-surgery-in-south-korean-popular-among-flight-attendant-candidates-2018-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/plastic-surgery-in-south-kor... "In fact, a 2016 survey by Saramin, a Korean online job portal, found that more than 60% of human resources personnel feel an applicant's appearance affects his or her candidacy." In a country where photos are usually required with applications for jobs that are expected to last you your lifetime, would it be superficial to use makeup/photoshop in your photo? At least nobody in Korea thinks so. Not mentioned: Korea espouses a ton of misogynistic attitudes towards women
wenc 8y ago
> lot of men wear makeup as well I was in Seoul a few days ago and I didn't notice any makeup on men. I had heard that standards of appearance are high there, so I had this expectation going in. And it was certainly true of the women, though I didn't notice this being true of the men, except maybe a certain more fashionable crowd?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- gnome_chomsky 8y ago
  If you don't wear makeup, you will often not notice others wearing makeup if they use just enough to enhance their natural appearance and hide blemishes.

by vhb 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

coldtea 8y ago

>The societal pressure on appearance is so high, that just going to the grocery shopping without makeup is seen a socially unacceptable. Well, "socially unacceptable" if you're superficial and want to be popular and trendy. I have a few Korean friends and they don't particularly care. So, it's as much "pressure" as wearing brand name clothes would be in the Valley in the 90s.

Veen 8y ago
> if you're superficial and want to be popular and trendy You can be concerned about being popular and trendy without being superficial. Ignoring fashion, style, and appearance standards can hurt your life chances and your relationships with other people. In societies where popularity and trendiness signal and enhance status, it's rational to be concerned about them.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >You can be concerned about being popular and trendy without being superficial. Ignoring fashion, style, and appearance standards can hurt your life chances and your relationships with other people. If your worried about your "life chances and your relationships with other people" based on fashion and style, then you're superficial, and those are superficial relations (and a superficial career). Not caring about "fashion and style" doesn't mean you're some hobo style slob (which would indeed hurt your relations and life chances for non-superficial reasons, e.g. because you smell and wear shorts at the office).
b_tterc_p 8y ago
Are they actually living in urban Korea with white collar jobs?
wigl 8y ago
Being around Koreans as a non Korean, especially in another country, is vastly different than being in Korea. As someone below asked, if your friends are not living in urban Korea working white collar jobs this is likely less relevant. OC's friend was most likely half joking, half not. >Well, "socially unacceptable" if you're superficial and want to be popular and trendy. The hardship of trying to break into an exclusive group ("popular") and working towards that goal ("trendy") is not too far off from that which looms over much of Korean culture. The fear that a social slight might cast you as an outlier, hurting your possibility of getting into such a group and undoing all your work, is unfortunately well founded. In the Korean language, if one is an outlier in a group, the word used to compare them to the rest is not "different" but "wrong." You also imply that one's own sense of identity should be the main view considered, over the "superficial" views of others. While I agree on moral grounds, this is simply not the case in Korea. Tablo incident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablo#2010%E2%80%9311:_Musical_hiatus_and_Stanford_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablo#2010%E2%80%9311:_Musical... It doesn't matter if Stanford verified his attendance--if it seemed fishy it was as good as true. Korean Air stewards being required to do makeup training: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/05/the-k-pop-plastic-surgery-obsession/276215/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/05/the-k-pop... "This February, cabin crew for Korean Airlines participated in makeup training, a mandatory requirement for all new stewardesses. This year, there were more than the usual numbers in the room. Korean Air now requires male cabin crew to attend -- and to learn how to blush and bronze themselves." https://www.businessinsider.com/plastic-surgery-in-south-korean-popular-among-flight-attendant-candidates-2018-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/plastic-surgery-in-south-kor... "In fact, a 2016 survey by Saramin, a Korean online job portal, found that more than 60% of human resources personnel feel an applicant's appearance affects his or her candidacy." In a country where photos are usually required with applications for jobs that are expected to last you your lifetime, would it be superficial to use makeup/photoshop in your photo? At least nobody in Korea thinks so. Not mentioned: Korea espouses a ton of misogynistic attitudes towards women

wenc 8y ago

> lot of men wear makeup as well I was in Seoul a few days ago and I didn't notice any makeup on men. I had heard that standards of appearance are high there, so I had this expectation going in. And it was certainly true of the women, though I didn't notice this being true of the men, except maybe a certain more fashionable crowd?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
gnome_chomsky 8y ago
If you don't wear makeup, you will often not notice others wearing makeup if they use just enough to enhance their natural appearance and hide blemishes.