7 ms·

I think you mean Object#send? I actually think that's misnamed, I think it should be named Object#receive because that's what happens - you're forcing an object

I think you mean Object#send? I actually think that's misnamed, I think it should be named Object#receive because that's what happens - you're forcing an object to receive a symbol for (by default) dispatch through its method table. The fact it isn't invoked for regular method invocation is kinda indicative of Ruby _not_ being a pure message passing language, even if we like treating it that way.

chrisseaton 8y ago
> I think you mean Object#send? It's definitely Kernel#send. Object defines no instance methods at all. > Kernel.instance_methods(false).include?(:send) => true > Object.instance_methods(false).include?(:send) => false > Object.instance_methods(false) => [] https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/v2_6_2/vm_eval.c#L2163 https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/v2_6_2/vm_eval.c#L2163
- inopinatus 8y ago
  Fascinating, the docs are misleading on this point. http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.6.2/Object.html#method-i-send http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.6.2/Object.html#method-i-send because Object includes Kernel and it's just easier to find, I guess. That's a somewhat arcane implementation detail though. What about the meat of the discussion?
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    I don't think Ruby is message passing either because the caller determines which method to call, based on the object's method table. #method_missing is just another method to be called by the caller - it isn't an example of the object being able to determine what happens. I think #send is really #call, but I think the name implies someone somewhere thought it was message passing. If I'm being uncharitable I think applying the term 'message passing' to Ruby is a bit of making something sound more sophisticated and elaborate than it is. They're method calls - it's pretty simple already and doesn't need a complex concept on top of that.
    - inopinatus 8y ago
      It merely remains to fork and/or invent a language that otherwise looks almost exactly like Ruby but with message passing only.
      - macintux 8y ago
        Elixir?
        chrisseaton 8y ago
        Elixir has conventional method calls by default, and only optional message passing with a separate syntax. It's definitely not message passing everywhere.
        macintux 8y ago
        It’s message passing everywhere outside the current object (process). It’s a little tough to compare to an OO language because there are no classes, but all object to object communications are asynchronous messages.

chrisseaton 8y ago

> I think you mean Object#send? It's definitely Kernel#send. Object defines no instance methods at all. > Kernel.instance_methods(false).include?(:send) => true > Object.instance_methods(false).include?(:send) => false > Object.instance_methods(false) => [] https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/v2_6_2/vm_eval.c#L2163 https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/v2_6_2/vm_eval.c#L2163

inopinatus 8y ago
Fascinating, the docs are misleading on this point. http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.6.2/Object.html#method-i-send http://ruby-doc.org/core-2.6.2/Object.html#method-i-send because Object includes Kernel and it's just easier to find, I guess. That's a somewhat arcane implementation detail though. What about the meat of the discussion?
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  I don't think Ruby is message passing either because the caller determines which method to call, based on the object's method table. #method_missing is just another method to be called by the caller - it isn't an example of the object being able to determine what happens. I think #send is really #call, but I think the name implies someone somewhere thought it was message passing. If I'm being uncharitable I think applying the term 'message passing' to Ruby is a bit of making something sound more sophisticated and elaborate than it is. They're method calls - it's pretty simple already and doesn't need a complex concept on top of that.
  - inopinatus 8y ago
    It merely remains to fork and/or invent a language that otherwise looks almost exactly like Ruby but with message passing only.
    - macintux 8y ago
      Elixir?
      - chrisseaton 8y ago
        Elixir has conventional method calls by default, and only optional message passing with a separate syntax. It's definitely not message passing everywhere.
        macintux 8y ago
        It’s message passing everywhere outside the current object (process). It’s a little tough to compare to an OO language because there are no classes, but all object to object communications are asynchronous messages.