4 ms·

> Road projects are expensive not only because of costs in design, land acquisition, and construction materials, but because they require large amounts of labor

by rdtsc 8y ago

> Road projects are expensive not only because of costs in design, land acquisition, and construction materials, but because they require large amounts of labor over several years. And most of all, corruption. I was talking to someone involved in a construction project (from donated / borrowed EU funds). EU eventually had to send someone to supervise because workers would sneak in it back at night and steal materials. Some were very creative as they might steal cement but replace it with something cheaper. Basically it is really an uphill battle. Just handing over a bunch of money to countries with a lot of corruption, doesn't work at all

peteretep 8y ago
> Just handing over a bunch of money to countries with a lot of corruption, doesn't work at all This is hardly a new problem. Literally any first world aid programme has this exact issue, whether it be USAID, AUSAID, DFID. Maybe there's just reluctance to treat EU partners the same way they treat South American and South East Asian partners?
- close04 8y ago
  It doesn't get much better in countries with lower corruption. The difference is that in less corrupt countries after the stealing is done the project delivers something close to expectations. In more corrupt countries after the stealing is done there's not much left for delivering anything.
- rdtsc 8y ago
  > Maybe there's just reluctance to treat EU partners the same way they treat South American and South East Asian partners? I think that was the case. It was embarrassing for the local officials to have to admit to the corruption. They know it is there and they are usually the ones involved in it, it's just that brining it to light and making it obvious is "embarrassing".
gumby 8y ago
This was a problem with the "Big Dig" project in Boston as well. A truck would drive in with cement, get checked in, then drive right out again, either to someone else's project or in order to return and be checked in again.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  It's not like everyone all the way to the top didn't know it was happening. The entire project was a feeding trough for everyone who worked in construction and knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy. I'm not sure if the corruption has gotten better since the project or just more subtle now that it's no longer all concentrated on several tunnels under Boston. Probably the latter considering that the various departments of state government do not seem to have improved much.
  - gumby 8y ago
    This is Massachusetts. Corruption is deeply baked in. I always laugh when I hear people in California talk about "corruption". The scams out here are kindergarten level compared to the east coast.

by rdtsc 8y ago

peteretep 8y ago

> Just handing over a bunch of money to countries with a lot of corruption, doesn't work at all This is hardly a new problem. Literally any first world aid programme has this exact issue, whether it be USAID, AUSAID, DFID. Maybe there's just reluctance to treat EU partners the same way they treat South American and South East Asian partners?

close04 8y ago
It doesn't get much better in countries with lower corruption. The difference is that in less corrupt countries after the stealing is done the project delivers something close to expectations. In more corrupt countries after the stealing is done there's not much left for delivering anything.
rdtsc 8y ago
> Maybe there's just reluctance to treat EU partners the same way they treat South American and South East Asian partners? I think that was the case. It was embarrassing for the local officials to have to admit to the corruption. They know it is there and they are usually the ones involved in it, it's just that brining it to light and making it obvious is "embarrassing".

gumby 8y ago

This was a problem with the "Big Dig" project in Boston as well. A truck would drive in with cement, get checked in, then drive right out again, either to someone else's project or in order to return and be checked in again.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
It's not like everyone all the way to the top didn't know it was happening. The entire project was a feeding trough for everyone who worked in construction and knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy. I'm not sure if the corruption has gotten better since the project or just more subtle now that it's no longer all concentrated on several tunnels under Boston. Probably the latter considering that the various departments of state government do not seem to have improved much.
- gumby 8y ago
  This is Massachusetts. Corruption is deeply baked in. I always laugh when I hear people in California talk about "corruption". The scams out here are kindergarten level compared to the east coast.