5 ms·

What is the legality of emulating proprietary hardware like this?

by petermcneeley 8y ago

ipnon 8y ago
It's a simulation, not a reproduction.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  I don’t think the MPAA would look kindly upon your attempt to “simulate” a movie…
  - _Reo 8y ago
    But video players are legal.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      Yes, as long as the media you put in it was legally acquired.
      - djschnei 8y ago
        the video player stays legal no matter where the files it plays came from...
        saagarjha 8y ago
        Yes, the video player is legal. What you’re doing with it is not legal.
        sjwright 8y ago
        What you or the video player is doing is not in itself illegal. The "illegal" part, if you want to use that terminology, is the purchasing and/or possession of an illegal copy of copyrighted material. The fact of copyright infringement doesn't magically emerge through the process of playing it. There are not—as far as I'm aware—any laws against watching copyright infringing materials; intentional possession is the entirety of crime.
        saagarjha 8y ago
        Interesting. Are there any rules against watching copyrighted materials you know were obtained illegally?
        roblabla 8y ago
        No. Copyright is about making a copy. It’s literally in the name: right to copy. A file downloaded illegally means someone made a copy without being authorized by the IP holder. What you do with the copy is irrelevant.
        mrkstu 8y ago
        There are 'performance rights' that are separate from the direct copyright infringement. i.e. if you buy a DVD legally and show it to your church's youth group, you'll be infringing on the performance rights. AFAIAA there isn't an 'enhanced' punishment if you got the IP illegally, just two separate offenses.
  - ipnon 8y ago
    I think the distinction to make here is that in the case of RPCS3 it's more like creating a projector in software than recreating a film in software. I can tell you that it is explicitly illegal to have the files you load into the emulator to play a certain game if you haven't purchased a copy of that game yourself.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      Yes, I know the distinction; that's why I replied to the comment since I felt it was not an accurate portrayal of the situation.
tom_ 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console_emulator#Legal_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console_emulator#Le... has some notes and links to court cases.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  TL;DR emulators are legal, as long as you use game files you have legally acquired by buying the game and dumping it yourself. Using game files from online is illegal.
  - Orphis 8y ago
    It can be fine as well if it can legally be downloaded. For example, it's possible to get the official firmware directly from Sony or play some homebrew software. And I'm sure it's possible to find some game demos as well.
lostgame 8y ago
They do have a tendency to chase after those who are emulating active systems as opposed to deprecated consoles.
- delroth 8y ago
  Not even. There was an emulator for the Wii U while the console was still seeing new releases, and no "chasing" happened. Similarly, there are at least 2 Switch emulators in development, and I haven't heard of any legal trouble from their side. Same for the 3DS, etc.
  - TheDong 8y ago
    There has been at least one case of such a lawsuit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!#Sony_lawsuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!#Sony_lawsuit
    - shaklee3 8y ago
      Bleem was amazing. I remember the emulator itself had copy protection that baffled cracking groups for longer than anything I'd seen at the time.
idonotknowwhy 8y ago
Sony don't seem to mind anymore, considering the Playstation Classic console uses the opensource pcsx emulator: https://www.dualshockers.com/playstation-classic-emulator-pcsx-rearmed/ https://www.dualshockers.com/playstation-classic-emulator-pc...
- Tsubasachan 8y ago
  Sony doesn't seem to care about emulation of old systems. The reality is that old games doesn't bring in much money for them and the people who run emulators are a niche. Piracy of the PS4 would get their attention.

What is the legality of emulating proprietary hardware like this?

ipnon 8y ago

It's a simulation, not a reproduction.

saagarjha 8y ago
I don’t think the MPAA would look kindly upon your attempt to “simulate” a movie…
- _Reo 8y ago
  But video players are legal.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Yes, as long as the media you put in it was legally acquired.
    - djschnei 8y ago
      the video player stays legal no matter where the files it plays came from...
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        Yes, the video player is legal. What you’re doing with it is not legal.
        sjwright 8y ago
        What you or the video player is doing is not in itself illegal. The "illegal" part, if you want to use that terminology, is the purchasing and/or possession of an illegal copy of copyrighted material. The fact of copyright infringement doesn't magically emerge through the process of playing it. There are not—as far as I'm aware—any laws against watching copyright infringing materials; intentional possession is the entirety of crime.
        saagarjha 8y ago
        Interesting. Are there any rules against watching copyrighted materials you know were obtained illegally?
        roblabla 8y ago
        No. Copyright is about making a copy. It’s literally in the name: right to copy. A file downloaded illegally means someone made a copy without being authorized by the IP holder. What you do with the copy is irrelevant.
        mrkstu 8y ago
        There are 'performance rights' that are separate from the direct copyright infringement. i.e. if you buy a DVD legally and show it to your church's youth group, you'll be infringing on the performance rights. AFAIAA there isn't an 'enhanced' punishment if you got the IP illegally, just two separate offenses.
- ipnon 8y ago
  I think the distinction to make here is that in the case of RPCS3 it's more like creating a projector in software than recreating a film in software. I can tell you that it is explicitly illegal to have the files you load into the emulator to play a certain game if you haven't purchased a copy of that game yourself.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Yes, I know the distinction; that's why I replied to the comment since I felt it was not an accurate portrayal of the situation.

tom_ 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console_emulator#Legal_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console_emulator#Le... has some notes and links to court cases.

saagarjha 8y ago
TL;DR emulators are legal, as long as you use game files you have legally acquired by buying the game and dumping it yourself. Using game files from online is illegal.
- Orphis 8y ago
  It can be fine as well if it can legally be downloaded. For example, it's possible to get the official firmware directly from Sony or play some homebrew software. And I'm sure it's possible to find some game demos as well.

lostgame 8y ago

They do have a tendency to chase after those who are emulating active systems as opposed to deprecated consoles.

delroth 8y ago
Not even. There was an emulator for the Wii U while the console was still seeing new releases, and no "chasing" happened. Similarly, there are at least 2 Switch emulators in development, and I haven't heard of any legal trouble from their side. Same for the 3DS, etc.
- TheDong 8y ago
  There has been at least one case of such a lawsuit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!#Sony_lawsuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!#Sony_lawsuit
  - shaklee3 8y ago
    Bleem was amazing. I remember the emulator itself had copy protection that baffled cracking groups for longer than anything I'd seen at the time.

idonotknowwhy 8y ago

Sony don't seem to mind anymore, considering the Playstation Classic console uses the opensource pcsx emulator: https://www.dualshockers.com/playstation-classic-emulator-pcsx-rearmed/ https://www.dualshockers.com/playstation-classic-emulator-pc...

Tsubasachan 8y ago
Sony doesn't seem to care about emulation of old systems. The reality is that old games doesn't bring in much money for them and the people who run emulators are a niche. Piracy of the PS4 would get their attention.