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I would treat child porn and specific threats against individuals just the same as I'd treat a shooting video. Arrest the shooter, the child porn producer (unl

by burfog 8y ago

I would treat child porn and specific threats against individuals just the same as I'd treat a shooting video. Arrest the shooter, the child porn producer (unless victim==perpetrator), and the person making the threat. It is fine for others to keep and share the video, photos, text, etc.

anigbrowl 8y ago
I'm not sure that it's fine, since one would expect network effects to increase proliferations - and empirical results bear out that expectation: http://www.davidmckie.com/final-visualizations/ http://www.davidmckie.com/final-visualizations/
- burfog 8y ago
  Well, do we want to catch people harming children, or do we just want to not be aware of it? We have an out-of-sight-out-of-mind policy right now. Reporting is discouraged, because then all your stuff would be seized as evidence and you'd be under suspicion. Lots of people probably destroy computers if they accidentally come across the stuff, since mere possession of the data is an offense. If it spreads around, then somebody might recognize a perpetrator. I suppose we could get fancy, with a rule that you can keep it if you register it. That would make it far easier to track things back to the source and then see if anybody is getting harmed.
  - anigbrowl 8y ago
    We have an out-of-sight-out-of-mind policy right now. Then how am I able to provide you with data collected by law enforcement authorities demonstrating decade-long trends, along with information on the methodology employed to collect it?
    - burfog 8y ago
      That is only about possession of what is sometimes evidence of abuse, and only about people who were caught with it. The interesting numbers are how many cases of abuse are hidden from law enforcement because: 1. people won't recognize abusers they know because they won't dare look 2. people would rather destroy a computer than deal with unfriendly police procedures Oh, BTW, one other problem I didn't mention. The current situation is very easy to use for framing a person. This has been determined to be the case in some divorce cases, and of course an unknown of innocent people were unable to prove that they were framed.
      - anigbrowl 8y ago
        You seem to be more interested in your hypotheticals than engaging with empirical data or learning about the rather extensive infrastructure that already exists to address the problem.
        burfog 8y ago
        I think you missed the point that I disagree about what is and isn't a problem. I think your "increase proliferations" wording refers to people having harmless data, not causing actual abuse. It should also be clear that not all abuse is caught, and that discouraging people from reporting things is unhelpful to actual victims.
        anigbrowl 8y ago
        YOu're asserting that it's harmless, I'm asserting that the existence of a market creates demand for more and absolutely does lead to actual abuse. I know people who were raped as children specifically to make child pornography and the evidence of whose suffering is traded among people who enjoy watching that. Oddly enough they don't seem to share your perspective. You haven't provided any evidence for your claim about discouraging people from reporting things. I think most police departments have a procedure for dealing with the situation where someone calls to say 'hello I bought an old laptop/hard disk/whatever and it seems to have child porn on it, please advise.' Waht do you know, there is even an official tipline specially set up for that purpose in the USA: https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/report-violations#reportcp https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/report-violations#repo... By all means continue to explore your imagination unencumbered by facts, but don't be surprised if people who live in the real world end up drawing different conclusions from yourself.
tzs 8y ago
What about the privacy rights of the children in child porn?
- burfog 8y ago
  What about the privacy rights of Phan Thị Kim Phúc? What about the privacy rights of so many kids on album covers? (Nevermind, Virgin Killer, Blind Faith...) It doesn't seem that society demands such a right.

by burfog 8y ago

anigbrowl 8y ago

I'm not sure that it's fine, since one would expect network effects to increase proliferations - and empirical results bear out that expectation: http://www.davidmckie.com/final-visualizations/ http://www.davidmckie.com/final-visualizations/

burfog 8y ago
Well, do we want to catch people harming children, or do we just want to not be aware of it? We have an out-of-sight-out-of-mind policy right now. Reporting is discouraged, because then all your stuff would be seized as evidence and you'd be under suspicion. Lots of people probably destroy computers if they accidentally come across the stuff, since mere possession of the data is an offense. If it spreads around, then somebody might recognize a perpetrator. I suppose we could get fancy, with a rule that you can keep it if you register it. That would make it far easier to track things back to the source and then see if anybody is getting harmed.
- anigbrowl 8y ago
  We have an out-of-sight-out-of-mind policy right now. Then how am I able to provide you with data collected by law enforcement authorities demonstrating decade-long trends, along with information on the methodology employed to collect it?
  - burfog 8y ago
    That is only about possession of what is sometimes evidence of abuse, and only about people who were caught with it. The interesting numbers are how many cases of abuse are hidden from law enforcement because: 1. people won't recognize abusers they know because they won't dare look 2. people would rather destroy a computer than deal with unfriendly police procedures Oh, BTW, one other problem I didn't mention. The current situation is very easy to use for framing a person. This has been determined to be the case in some divorce cases, and of course an unknown of innocent people were unable to prove that they were framed.
    - anigbrowl 8y ago
      You seem to be more interested in your hypotheticals than engaging with empirical data or learning about the rather extensive infrastructure that already exists to address the problem.
      - burfog 8y ago
        I think you missed the point that I disagree about what is and isn't a problem. I think your "increase proliferations" wording refers to people having harmless data, not causing actual abuse. It should also be clear that not all abuse is caught, and that discouraging people from reporting things is unhelpful to actual victims.
        anigbrowl 8y ago
        YOu're asserting that it's harmless, I'm asserting that the existence of a market creates demand for more and absolutely does lead to actual abuse. I know people who were raped as children specifically to make child pornography and the evidence of whose suffering is traded among people who enjoy watching that. Oddly enough they don't seem to share your perspective. You haven't provided any evidence for your claim about discouraging people from reporting things. I think most police departments have a procedure for dealing with the situation where someone calls to say 'hello I bought an old laptop/hard disk/whatever and it seems to have child porn on it, please advise.' Waht do you know, there is even an official tipline specially set up for that purpose in the USA: https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/report-violations#reportcp https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/report-violations#repo... By all means continue to explore your imagination unencumbered by facts, but don't be surprised if people who live in the real world end up drawing different conclusions from yourself.

tzs 8y ago

What about the privacy rights of the children in child porn?

burfog 8y ago
What about the privacy rights of Phan Thị Kim Phúc? What about the privacy rights of so many kids on album covers? (Nevermind, Virgin Killer, Blind Faith...) It doesn't seem that society demands such a right.